THE ABORT TEAM

Erik van t Wout · Post by **Erik van t Wout** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:07 pm

Greetings to all of you!

My name is Erik van t Wout, and I live in Amsterdam - the Netherlands. I'm 45 years old. I'm NOT a CIA agent (or AIVD), although I'd love to be one, really.

I work for dutch television as a director of drama (police) series (like "Grijpstra & de Gier - RTL 4, and other)

What brought me here is:

-I've been reading about the JFK assasination for more than 20 years.

-and I've been forgetting about it for about the same amount of time ('cause there's other things a man's gotta do...and I have a bad memory)

-I'm very impressed with the knowledge about the JFK case that is displayed here on this site, and on this forum.

-my first book I read about this case was about a lie-detector study on Oswald's words "I'm just a patsy!" Oswald passed the test (of course).

-after that I read a LOT of books by many respected JFK researchers...starting with Mark Lane of course --I even read an extract of the Warren report!...and forgot about all of that later on--
-- 'cause I had other things to do, and because I have a bad memory--

- BUT: my real interest in all of this is of couse: the implications this might have... I mean...who knows....maybe next week?!
Suppose Jack Ruby's words (I'm paraphrasing: "the true facts will never come up above the world")

--suppose.....they WILL, next week.

"Are these persons in high positions, Jack?" - answer JR: "Yes!"

Well, SUPPOSE these people in high positions would indeed be exposed (alive or dead), then.... what?
Would I want that?
YES I do--of course in the name of truth and true democracy etc--

-- and meanwhile I'm not quite sure whether I'd be comfortable with the consequences (what about the interest-rates and all that, could I still afford living where I live...(pardon the unsuccesful joke).

Honestly: our minds in the west could be blown up more severely by THIS, than by anything "big" Al Quaida is cooking up for us--

--if these revelations ever really and seriously occur. And are accepted to be the tragic truth of America of the past decades, of the last century.... I have no idea what going to happen next.

OK, so....
obviously I'm interested in the WHOLE JFK case, the planning of the killing, the killing itself, and the cover-up which followed, but I consider it wise to choose ONE subject for now amongst the many many options, right?

So I'll narrow things down extremely now, and my choice at this instance would be: THE ABORT TEAM. This is not a random choice: I like the subject very much. And I am not very knowledgable on the subject.

(The problem being: I base the following on my experience and knowledge (despite bad memory) gathered by 20 years of reading on the case, and on my recent viewing of the DVD "I shot JFK". I haven't read the book "Files on JFK" yet! Shame on me, so maybe all my questions are answered by that book. If so, please discard me as a nitwit, and please forgive my impatience....

BUT--
From what I understand John Roselli was flown in by William Robert Plumlee, in order to ABORT the mission to kill JFK.

On finally arriving in Dallas (bad weather) he told Nicoletti: Let's not do it.
Nicoletti responded: You're not the boss, so I'll do it anyway.
Roselli said: well fine, but I'll not pull any trigger today.
Nicoletti concluded: You can do or not do whatever you think is best, but I go ahead anyway.

(Of course the above conversation was cooked up by me...., but it must have been somewhat along those lines...)

Anyway: Nicoletti realizes suddenly he is the only gunman now (on his own team)--

--Then he has a sudden brainwave, and that's where James Files get's promoted right then and there. From driver/researcher of the terrain --

--to back-up shooter.

Which eventually made him the executioner of the fatal and famous head-shot that killed JFK.

I would like to learn more about this. There MUST be people on this forum that could help me out here!

I am a filmdirector. I direct actors. That's my passion. In this case for example, I would have no idea how to direct the actor playing the part of Roselli during his confrontation with Nicoletti. With how much "hair on his chest" does Roselli enter this scene? How much power does he have really, as he is confronting Nicoletti. Why does he back away so easily, and lets Nicoletti pursue his plan anyway? Why does he give up so easily (after such a long flight, having such an obvious and mighty important objective to achieve?).

My questions summarized:
1) Roselli didn't persist. He had a highly important mission though. To abort the mission. Instead he sort of gentally stepped aside....why? Why didn't he actually ABORT IT ?
Didn't he have the power to do so? So why was he FLOWN IN?

2) Who gave Roselli the orders to abort the mission? It couldn't have been Roselli's own idea, surely? Who made him fly into Dallas to abort the mission to kill JFK?

3) So how come, after hearing out Roselli, Nicoletti went on with the mission anyway --ignoring Roselli-- and upgraded James Files's position on the spot?

Did Roselli call his boos and tell him: "Gee boss, they didn't agree with me, they wouldn't listen to me".

To me this is a strange tale, difficult to direct, and I'd like to learn more about it.
Anyone?

Lots of greetings,
Erik van t Wout

P>S> : I studied the 2003 interview with James Files with the eyes of a director with lots of experience in directing actors (and amateurs).
To me it would be inconceivable that Mr. Files acted all of this. Impossible!
My girlfriend (longtime actress) agreed with me. Files' answers are too decisive and prompt, his talent for improvisation would have to be better than that of de Niro or Hoffman (or Pierre Bokma from the Netherlands for that matter).
This man (Files) is an absolute natural, in my eyes. If this was carefully rehearsed, and if we, the audience, turn out to be looking at take 13 of each delivered speech: I promise I will quit my job, because in that case I have no legitimate reason to work on filmsets anymore and help actors understand scenes and help them find the appropiate ways to act these scenes.
I could not have directed Files, if he was in fact not the man he says he is, if he lied about what he has done. I would certainly have failed as a director on this project, and Files would have failed as an actor. But then, I'm no Francis or Sophia Coppola..... No, I believe Files is authentic. He NEEDS no direction. Because he's real.
As a director I have to work on the would-be's (i.e. the actors). Dogs and lions go their own way. They're really what they are, I leave them alone, I just film them.
James Files convinced me very much that he is the lion he says he is.

Greatings,
Erik

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:22 am

Hi Erik,

1st I want to welcome you overhere at the JFKMurdersolved-forum!
Enjoy your stay and as I told you by email before: you are most welcome to watch some dvd's and discuss the case (maybe with Bobwc, Mark and Wim?)

About the abort team: I don't know what to think of it...
We have Plumlee saying he flew in an "abort team", we have James Files saying Roselli got orders to call the hit off and we have Judyth Vary Baker saying Lee Oswald probably had to stop the assassination...
Maybe the higher forces who were behind the assassination and the cover-up planned all this and let some people think there was an "abort team" while in fact there maybe wasn't?
I still don't know.
Although this is a very interesting point you pick out here, let's wait what the other members' thoughts are.

Gr. Paul

dankbaar · Post by **dankbaar** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:24 am

Very smart post.

I have given these questions some thought also and long before. My (speculative) analysis is more or less as follows:

The assassination could never have been planned by the CIA as a whole. It was planned by by a rogue but powerful group within the CIA. As John McCone said: A mansion has many rooms. I don't know who killed John.

These rogue hawks were basically the group that had the plans to kill Fidel Castro in place. Hence they worked with elements of organized crime (Marcello, Licavoli, Giancana, Trafficante). David Phillips, Ted Shackley, Dulles, Nixon, Bush, Lansdale, Harvey, Hunt, etc. Extremely secret. Still the group was big enough to not be able to keep everything under the lid. My guess is that other (less treacherous) elements within the CIA got wind of the murder plot, but did not find out the details and plotter in time. Yet they dispatched an abort team to Dallas. Roselli could have been reporting to both groups, undecided whose orders he was to follow. Therefore he chose to stay in the middle. Giancana, Nicoletti and Phillips did certainly not belong to the group who wanted to abort the hit. And I think they were by far not alone. I simply believe the CIA did what it was supposed to do: gathering intelligence. Maybe they even found that the plot originated from their own ranks. That would explain somewhat why they did not alert Kennedy right away, which is what they should have done of course.

Dave Cannon · Post by **Dave Cannon** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:34 pm

Wim,

I agree with your statments that the certain CIA and FBI elements knew about the plot to kill Kennedy, and by the way Wim, thank you for the DVD. I viewed it yesterday and I feel it is very well done. I especially liked the bonus material. I now have the 1993, 2003 Files interviews and the Judyth Baker DVD. They are all excellent! I have one question that has been raised after viewing the "I SHOT JFK" DVD. I will start a thread as soon as I check into it more and see if I can get my question worded correctly.

About CIA elements knowing about their own plot.

According to researcher Dick Russell, Richard Case Nagell (Military Intelligence officer and CIA contract agent) discovered a plot that was to take place in the latter part of September of 63. Nagell sent a dispatch to J. Edgar Hoover stating the he knows of an upcoming attempt to kill JFK. He sent it to Hoover because he probably new that the CIA was involved in a plot. In the dispatch, Nagell listed Oswald and 2 Cuban exliles as possible assassins. The letter was composed in the format by used by CIA opperational personel and signed using Joseph Krammer, Apdo. Postal 88-Bis, Mexico, D.F., Mexico.

I also find it interesting that Jim Garrison said that "Richard Nagell is the most important witness there is (The Man Who Knew Too Much, Russell, 1992)".

Unfortuately, Nagell was found dead in 1995, a few days before he was subpoenaed by the Assassinations Records Review Board.

Fortunately, Dick Russell's book has some valuable research in it that has given me further insight on how the certain elements of the government were or are currently operating.

I am not trying to promote the book for any reason except that it has some very interesting eveidence that I have not seen or heard before.

It also very interesting that Nagell's life parrallels James Files life in some ways. For example, he kept certain evidence hidden from the authorities in order to use it as life insurance. Evidently, his time ran out. Nagell claimed that he has an audio tape that includes Oswald's voice and other details about the assassination.

Dave Cannon

Erik van t Wout · Post by **Erik van t Wout** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:33 pm

Wim, Paul and Dave,

Thanks for reacting and thinking out loud. It seems my questions lead to more questions and speculation. Maybe it's a dead end, I don't know.

Is anybody that was part of that ABORT TEAM still alive?
(I don't mean to call 'm up, surely, but...)

For now I'll just wait and see if any more reactions come up regarding this subject.

Greetings,

Erik van t Wout

dankbaar · Post by **dankbaar** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:23 am

Tosh Plumlee is still alive.

Erik van t Wout · Post by **Erik van t Wout** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:04 am

That's right. I keep confusing him with Chauncey Holt.

Would Tosh Plumlee (as a pilot) know specifics about who ordered Roselli to abort the mission to kill JFK though. Or know about the "weight" of that abort-mission for that matter. It's not likely, is it-- considering the "on a need to know" way of operating in those circles.

Erik

dankbaar · Post by **dankbaar** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:31 am

Yes, Rex Beardsley and Bob Bennett, which I believe is the current senator of Utah.

Wim

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/bennett.htm

Erik van t Wout · Post by **Erik van t Wout** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:00 am

Wim,
Right, I checked your link on Bennett, and Plumlee's statements in its entirety.

When Tosh Plumlee talks about the flight OUT of Dallas, he says:

"The people on the flight out of Dallas were very quiet. I interpreted their silence as dejection at the mission's failure to abort the assassination of the President. I believed that if these men had been the shooters or assassins themselves, they would have been very excited because they had carried it off. That's why to this day I take issue with the idea, which I have been asked to speculate on many times, that the attack on the President was in behalf of the CIA, Mafia, or Military Intelligence, and I had unknowingly flown an attack team in which had assassinated the President."

Now I don't understand what the last sentence here means exactly, mainly because I don't know the expression "I take issue with the idea..."
Does that mean he supports the idea, or does he object to it?

Erik

dankbaar · Post by **dankbaar** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:05 am

There has been a time that he did not rule out the idea that he has been duped and actually flew (some of) the killers to Dallas. However, he no longer seems to play with that thought. Whatever the case, it's conjecture on his part.

Wim