Recent Trip to Dealey Plaza

JFK Assassination
Alex Hidell
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm

Recent Trip to Dealey Plaza

Post by Alex Hidell »

Just came back from my most recent trip to Dealey Plaza. Random thoughts in no particular order of importance-1. There are now two painted x's in the street. One for the fatal head shot and the second one, I believe, is for the throat shot.2. Robert Groden is no longer standing next to the pergola selling his books and DVD's. Some new guy took his spot.3. Took the silly tour of the TSBD. They have completely blocked off the "shooter's window" on the 6th floor with plexiglass. You can no longer lean over and look out the "sniper's nest" window.4. The distance that Oswald supposedly traveled across the entire 6th floor from his "sniper's window" to the back staricase is much larger than I remembered. Considering the floor was stacked floor to ceiling with books it just looks like an impossible feat for Oswald to go from the left front of the floor all the way back to the right rear, dodging all the stacks of books, stuff the rifle between some boxes and presumbaly wipe it down for fingerprints and then sprint down 4 flights of stairs to be calming drinking a Coke in the cafeteria when the patrolman found him, all in less than 90 seconds. Just imagining someone doing all that and to not be totally covered in sweat, out of breath and trembling slightly, if they could do it at all, seems impossible when you stand there on the 6th floor imagining doing it yourself. The building is simply too big to pull that feat off, IMO.5. Walking around Dealey Plaza imagining I was a shooter and I was getting the lay of the land and trying to decide where best to shoot from, a couple things quickly come to your mind- The 2nd floor window in the Dal Tex Bldg had a much better view of the killing zone than did the 6th floor of the TSBD. There are trees between the 6th floor window and the street and the Dal Tex window has a perfect view down the entire Elm St. all the way to the triple underpass. No trees. Nothing in your line of sight. If I'm looking to do this from a building, that 2nd floor "Nicoletti" window in the Dal Tex Bldg is a perfect location. You're above the street so the drop in grade doesn't affect your line of sight and again, no trees.6. Looking down Elm thru the killing zone it strikes you how sharp the street drops. It is on more of a hill than I remembered. The spot behind the picket fence is certainly not an ideal location. Trees block some of your view and in fact, the limo actually drops below the cement wall, where "dog man" crouched at the corner, for part of the trip relative to a shooter behind the picket fence and line of sight to JFK is lost. The limo does come back into line of sight in time for the head shot. If the limo had been in the right lane rather than the center lane, even more line of sight from the picket fence to JFK would have been lost. It could have been done but it is not as easy as I thought.I can certainly see why, for concealment purposes, one would be behind the picket fence but there are some difficulties with that location and it would appear to be a secondary or back up location, not a primary location, that I would pick to get the job done7. The overwhelming best shooting location on the ground in the plaza itself would have been where "dog man" crouched at the corner of the cement fence about 10-12 feet in front of and to the right of Zapruder. This guy fled the scene quickly so not much is known about him, all he left behind was a half filled Coke bottle. When you crouch at that corner you notice this is by far the most perfect location to shoot JFK. Nothing between you and the limo in the entire killing zone. Admittedly you would need a gun with a silencer because you are realtively exposed but for the the perfect shot, this would have been my preferred location using a handgun with a silencer.8. The storm drain is also a possibility. I always discounted this location but in laying down and looking up at trafffic you could definitely get a shot off. There is a very limited line of sight from the storm drain with only about a 10-15 foot length of travel by the limo for line of sight but, oddly enough, it lines up perfectly for the fatal head shot.In conclusion, the more you look at it, the more impossible the feat attributed to Oswald looks to accomplish. In fact, the window at the southwest corner of the 6th floor offers a much better view of the killing zone. Virtually no trees blocking your view. If Oswald did what they say he did, he didn't even pick the best window on the 6th floor of his own Bldg to shoot from and he had a couple months to figure it out. The best shooting location from any Bldg I could see is the "Nicoletti window" on the 2nd floor of the Dal Tex Bldg. If indeed Nicoletti was firing from that window, he did his homework. "Dog Man's" crouching position at the corner of the cement wall is by far the best shooting position on the ground, albeit with exposure issues, with picket fence and storm drain both offering possibilities but both with some restrictions in line of sight to killing zone. The Triple Overpass also offers perfect views of the killing zone but would have exposure issues.That's it for now:)
Tom Bigg
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Re: Recent Trip to Dealey Plaza

Post by Tom Bigg »

There is no substitute for historical research to visiting the actual place IMO. Good work and some excellent observations.Governor Ventura in his "Conspiracy" program on this, made most of the features of the "official" version truly ludicrous to thinking people. The gun, the shooter, the number of shots supposedly fired from his location...people must sure be afraid of being branded "conspiracy nuts" to swallow the garbage of the official story line.I was checking out some of the videos available on youtube, like the Z film with the dictabelt recording syncronized with it. More and more people are getting this information. At some point we will be at 80% "for" conspiracy and less than 10% against, the latter with huge biases at stake.
Wayne Stracener
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Re: Recent Trip to Dealey Plaza

Post by Wayne Stracener »

Alex, It's nice to read about your trip DP, Going there lets you know just how small of an area it is, Groden has been selling by the pergola for years and puts up with a lot of ( ) to do so, He has a man working with him now and fills in when Groden can not be there or you can catch them there working together, Don't forget Elm st. has been paved over the years and the sewer openings are not as large as they use to be. Great post worth reading, Nice and clean, Thanks.....Wayne



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JDThomas
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Re: Recent Trip to Dealey Plaza

Post by JDThomas »

I concur with what is posted here and 'Alex' gives a good account of various possible gunman locations (would be nice to have an account of the County records building too ).'Alex's' descriptions stimulate further thinking - Black Dog man' s location may be the best location for a kill shot, but suicidally exposed. The fact that he is clearly seen in photos would suggest that even with a silencer, a shooter from this location would easily have been seen and caught, or more likely 'terminated'.The knoll position still remains great for a backup shooter - all you need to know is that if the president is not badly hit when he comes into your field of view then you take a shot; you have reasonable cover and an open area for escape if you keep a cool head - even better if you have fake agents in the area for cover.A shot from the drains cannot be discounted. Researcher Bob Harris has been down in the drain and confirms that a shooter would have a reasonable field of fire, particularly at 1963 road levels. A shooter would have excellent cover from here. The shooter would probably have very little idea of what is happening further up the street however and I believe that he would have needed a spotter or a radio communication to prepare for the shot (notwithstanding a possible severe slowdown or stop by the limo). I suppose one could argue, that if the president had been hit with an earlier shot, he would not have had to have slumped much futher than he did for a kill shot from this location to be out of view - a knoll position would have been a better bet to 'finish him off' from. If JFK had gone down in the car like Connally (they could not have known about the effects of shot reactions or the effect of the back brace), then a knoll shooter could have finished the job with a frangiable bullet, but a drain shooter not.I do have doubts about the quality of silencer technologies in 1963 - never trust manufacturers claims either! Bob Harris has talked a lot about this and believes that 1963 technological limiations on accuracy and velocity may have been the reason for missed shots from the Dal Tex building. My own experince with silencers for vermin shooting with a .22 calibre in modern times is that most of those I have tried are a waste of money. In 1963, I could buy a silencer being useful for a close quarter shot from a handgun, but for longer distances, the chance of failure would be very high.Once again, I always love Bill Hick's description of why the Sniper's nest is not accessibleto the public!!
Tom Bigg
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Re: Recent Trip to Dealey Plaza

Post by Tom Bigg »

I will stick with the likely assassin location as the Dal Tex building. The operation was a joint operation between the mob and the CIA--they are not going to take unnecessary risks of exposure, though they sure had to cover a lot of tracks! The shots on the dictabelt recording are loud. I am still wondering whether to shot to JFKs neck was intentional; if Nicoletti was that good a marksman, it is surprising that he wouldn't have been able to nail JFK the first time in the head, which was what he and Files were aiming for.
Davyjones
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Re: Recent Trip to Dealey Plaza

Post by Davyjones »

As far as I know the hole in the throat has no entry from the rear, hence ,no chance it was a bad miss from the Dal Tex. The throat wound was a result of debris from the head shots? I take it not many here think the back shot came out at the throat ,al la the WC story.
tom jeffers
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Re: Recent Trip to Dealey Plaza

Post by tom jeffers »

I remember clearly the first time I visited dealey plaza. it was surreal like visiting a movie set from a movie that I had watched many times. My most striking memory was the size of the area. The pictures that I had seen made me think that the area was enormous when in fact it was quite a small and quaint area which made it more difficult for the witnesses to pinpoint where the shots came from.
Bob
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Re: Recent Trip to Dealey Plaza

Post by Bob »

Good job Alex and nice summation of your visit.
Alex Hidell
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Re: Recent Trip to Dealey Plaza

Post by Alex Hidell »

The thing that brings me back to the "dog man" position at the corner of the cement wall is what a perfect view he had and the fact that the fence is only about 24-30 inches high. If he had been an innocent bystander, there was no need to be crouching on his knees behind a low cement wall to watch the motorcade. A much more obvious position is to simply stand up or even sit on top of the wall. It is completely unnatural for someone to crouch behind that low cement wall to watch the motorcade. Makes no sense.
Slav
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Re: Recent Trip to Dealey Plaza

Post by Slav »

How many people here have been to Dallas?I was there approx 15 years ago, went up to the six floor and walked threw out the plaza, there is no way that oswald took those shots, its all a set up, you can see that from just standing there and looking around. I shoot and the easy shot would of been the knoll and the dal tex building and the other side of the so called oswald window on the other end of the 6th floor.I signed the book on the six floor and wrote the government Killed jfk people wake up. I wonder if they tore up my page. I stood there for hours almost in a trance looking around and wondering how can they get away with this and then kill all those witnesses and even killing people in the 75-77 years to cover it up.Somebody has to pay and get arrested, Oswald has to be cleared there is no way he even took one shot. It amazes me all those killings and nobody gets arrested, who is running the country the mob?I cant wait to visit there again its been a while and I have to go back.
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