Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy.

[Phil Dragoo]

A breathtaking snapshot of Patricia Lambert at http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.ba ... ecognizing that researchers now know that Shaw was a member of a CIA operation entitled QK/ENCHANT, Lambert preposterously argues, using "one unofficial account" as her source, that QK/ENCHANT was "nothing more than a program for routine debriefing of individuals involved in international trade." Yet, interestingly, Watergate mastermind and CIA spook E. Howard Hunt (Guatemala, the Bay of Pigs), was also approved for QK/ENCHANT, and he was no businessman.Can find no corroboration for Lambert's use of Billings as surname.

[SeamusCoogan]

Phil Dragoo wrote:A breathtaking snapshot of Patricia Lambert at http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.ba ... ecognizing that researchers now know that Shaw was a member of a CIA operation entitled QK/ENCHANT, Lambert preposterously argues, using "one unofficial account" as her source, that QK/ENCHANT was "nothing more than a program for routine debriefing of individuals involved in international trade." Yet, interestingly, Watergate mastermind and CIA spook E. Howard Hunt (Guatemala, the Bay of Pigs), was also approved for QK/ENCHANT, and he was no businessman.Can find no corroboration for Lambert's use of Billings as surname.Nor could I Phil. You may wanna email Lisa or Jim. Mind you though they only put it in their as a what if. I dont think it was intended to be that important just one of those out there moments. And shes not at Temple Uni no longer either champ.

[SeamusCoogan]

Phil Dragoo wrote:SeamusI am currently reading Lisa Pease's fabulous tale of all things Angleton. In the valuable volume containing Jim DiEugenio's saga of betrayal of Jim Garrison's investigation by the highest levels of the CIA and FBI.I will be looking into identifying Patricia Lambert-Billings, and comparing the body Thornley to the Backyard Marxist Newsreader.My Lifton 80-2 came from a round of purchases including Lane, Meagher, Groden, Livingston, et al.Groden had a matte on Kennedy's head; Lifton had a hammer.If he's giving McAdams foot massages, he may be beyond professional help.Douglass is next. And what do you make of Tom Wilson's work recently out.And what does Lambert make of Helms' remark at the contemporaneous morning Langley briefings, "How about our people in New Orleans?"Right, right, with her it's all, "La la la, I can't hear you with the shower running."Havent had a crack of Wilson lately Phil, will have a looksy and report back. Like the quote about the Matte and the head.OOOOOOOOOH you meant that Tom Wilson. Hmmmmmmmmmm him and the guy Brazil, theres just no photographic evidence backing either of them up. The sound technology that Wilson was using was extremely old and outdated by todays standards. Ive jumped in that storm drain and man Im sorry lol its very doubtful. Livingston (one of the worst lemme add) totally buys into there stuff. Now Garrison did apprently unearth some plans of storm drains in Dealey Plaza from some fellow. Now, in his opinion they were potential hiding places for weapons or for a possible escape, hell even a diversion. But it looks as if the 'Cancer man' angle is utter folly. Groden has debunked it pretty well as far as Im concerned.

[SeamusCoogan]

Bob wrote:SeamusCoogan wrote:Yes this is a debate best served on another thread.Patrick J Buchanan your not talking about the Pat Buchanan are you? Oh you are.Ah Im supposed to be respectful of others views but firstly, I am very cynical of anyone who would promote Pat Buchanan over Jim Douglas. In particularly because of Buchanans. Sheeeeeesh.This book is valuable, though, in supplying some information about Prouty as a "focal point officer". According to what Douglass writes, pages 196-7, Prouty was much more than the benign person he was portrayed as in The Men Who Killed Kennedy. In fact, he had to have been a CIA asset to undertake the duties ascribed to by Dulles in the book. And yet, we are expected to believe from his Secret Team that he didn't sign any Official Secrets Act, or whatever it's called, and so he was able to write the book. This strikes me as pure BS.Prouty's book got pulled off of bookshelf in America. Furthermore, I was in contact with Jim Marrs and he said to me you could and I quote you "Go to the Bank on Prouty." Ill tell you what is bullshit the crap thats been said about Prouty and the Chch Star that he had no control over and what he was badly mistaken.Were you implying Prouty is a plant of some kind? Did you know that all and I mean 'all' copies of his book the secret team got taken off of the shelves. As for Marrs, Marrs stuff on Kennedy is good. Thats all Im going to say. Marrs by the way told me via email some 7 years ago that you could go to the bank on Prouty as far was he was concernedDouglas and prouty are not perfect. I have Douglas sitting around about 93% out of 100, and I have Prouty sitting at a highly respectable 77-85% which is about as much as I give Marrs on Jfk out of 100 respectively. Baring in mind in my ratings system someones gotta have a pass mark of at least 65 or over to pass. Jim Di and Lisa lol well you all know where I put em. Buchanan sheeeeesh man Negative 50, a few places below Dave Lifton lol.Seamus, while I certainly agree with you about Pat Buchanon, I think you are a bit harsh with David Lifton. Maybe he's not well liked in some circles, but I think he brought a very interesting perspective to the table with his book...Best Evidence. Did he make errors? Hell...it goes with the territory. But his theory was spot on. JFK's wounds were INDEED altered. I also think Jim Marrs is great (as is Robert Groden), and James Douglass wrote a fantastic book this year (JFK and the Unspeakable)...the best JFK assassination book in years. I also really liked Russ Baker's book Family of Secrets. Jim DiEugenio is probably the best overall researcher in the business right now. MarK Lane is a legend and he still can bring it. It was Lane and Jim Garrison that made me become a interested observer and a so called "researcher" when I was in college. Speaking of legends...Fletcher Prouty is the man! There are many other great researchers like Jack White, Lisa Pease, Mary Ferrell, Tom Rossley and so many others. We don't agree on everything, but our basis for a conspiracy is solid, well researched and validated. I also applaud all the work Wim has done, not only with his book Files on JFK and his vids, but also with all the great information on this site and putting together this forum.Yeah, Bob, what I like about this we can have reasoned gentlemans agreements. I think Wim has done very well mate, he has assembled some A grade people here. As for Lifton lol, well he did come good with Myers and the Bugliosi ghost writing scandal. As for Baker, hmmmmmm yeah he raises some interesting stuff. The Bush family are damn scary. I just worry about the over emphasis people lend to Bush and his family at the time of the assassination. He may have had some involvement but I would NOT confer plotter status. Follow orders status defintely. Whats reprehensible is the way in which the Bush did it fraternity have pushed aside career pros like Phillips to have Pappy Bush fit the theory. (People forget that Prescott Bush died in January of 1963). My mistake resigned Politcally more like (Thank god for editing) Lol, he wasnt around to give orders in November and was so ill I doubt he would have been involved in any indepth plans. Lol as it turns out he was at least around. God bless you Bob.

[Bob]

I certainly appreciate your perspective Seamus. The thing is, all of us on the CT team have to stay together. There may be disagreements about certain issues like whether the Zapruder film was altered, shot locations, the source of the wounds to JFK, who were the shooters , who were the conspirators etc., but we ALL continue to search for the truth and can debate respectfully. We have solved most of the puzzle and are searching for the missing pieces now. The LN club won't even debate amongst themselves. They have all consumed the kool aid. Bottom line, the CT team continues to search for the truth while the LN club sweeps the truth under the carpet. Our people can't be bought off, while people like Gary Mack and Vincent Bugliosi have sold themselves off like whores. Plus they both appear on the biggest whore of them all a lot...the MSM.

[kenmurray]

Bob wrote:I certainly appreciate your perspective Seamus. The thing is, all of us on the CT team have to stay together. There may be disagreements about certain issues like whether the Zapruder film was altered, shot locations, the source of the wounds to JFK, who were the shooters , who were the conspirators etc., but we ALL continue to search for the truth and can debate respectfully. We have solved most of the puzzle and are searching for the missing pieces now. The LN club won't even debate amongst themselves. They have all consumed the kool aid. Bottom line, the CT team continues to search for the truth while the LN club sweeps the truth under the carpet. Our people can't be bought off, while people like Gary Mack and Vincent Bugliosi have sold themselves off like whores. Plus they both appear on the biggest whore of them all a lot...the MSM.Plus, the head pimp Chris Matthews adores the whores like Posner and Bugliosi.

[Bob]

Seamus...Prescott Bu$h died in October of 1972. He was very much alive on 11/22/1963. In fact, here is a letter he wrote to Allen Dulles' wife a few months after RFK was assassinated in June of 1968.http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/prescott.htmIn addition, here is another post of mine talking about Prescott responding to a post by the infamous John Beckham about President Eisenhower...Although I too like Ike for many reasons (especially his warning about the Military Industrial Complex), it was his administration and the 1950's that really set things in motion in terms of the Bu$h power grab. First off, the MSM NEVER brought up anything negative about Prescott Bu$h as he ran and won the Senate seat in Connecticut in 1952. The MSM never brought up the attempted coup against FDR, the money Bu$h made off the Hitler war machine or the fact that Bu$h was actually charged with trading with the enemy in 1942. Also, remember that Prescott was an original founder of CBS. Prescott was GOOD friends with Allen Dulles who ran the CIA, and also his brother John Foster Dulles, who was Ike's Secretary of State. Again, please check out the CIA's Operation Mockingbird, in which the CIA planted operatives in the MSM to push their point of view and also to CONCEAL damning information. As Wim asserts in the Poppy Bu$h section of this site, Prescott Bush advised Eisenhower to run for President and then launched Richard Nixon into the Vice Presidency. Subsequently he was a major financer of Nixon's presidential campaign against Kennedy. Prescott Bu$h was an avid JFK opponent and Nixon has always been a puppet for the interests of the Bu$h family. Bu$h brought BOTH Nixon and Gerald Ford into politics. Please read about these connections...http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/page193.htmBottom line, Allen Dulles hired Poppy Bu$h to come into the CIA in the late 1950's, and the assassination of JFK was actually set in motion in the 1950's with all of these powerful men who held high places in government. JFK threatened their power and also threatened their business interests. That is why he was eliminated.

[Phil Dragoo]

GentlemenIn reviewing my copy of Jim Marrs, CROSSFIRE: The Plot that Killed Kennedy, Carroll & Graf, 1989, I find on the inside title page the author has cited an authority on disinformation.The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one. . . . Adolf Hitler Mein KampfAnd so we have Posner, Bugliosi et al assuring us that a lone nut with a toy gun got lucky beyond the lottery; case closed.Politicians and spooks may break all the laws but the Third Law of Motion. Kennedy's head, an unimpeachable expert witness, indicts a shooter from the front.Arlen Specter to the contrary notwithstanding, the Magic Bullet has no provenance--its chain of evidence personages dispute it as the bullet they initialled--for it has no initials (see the work of Jim DiEugenio in publishing the research).James Files provides cogent and credible testimony to cover the observed phenomenon. And we know how the CIA just loves to use cutouts--in this case, the members of the Chicago family including an early Dallas immigrant, Jack Rubenstein.Prouty indicates Cabell was involved in the development of the U-2 ca. 1954-5. In 1960 Mr. Powers goes to Russia so that Mr. Eisenhower shan't go to Paris. Mr. Kennedy later goes to Dallas so that Mr. Johnson may go to Washington.Mr. Dulles opined an agent might lie, and Mr. Angleton wasn't privy to who struck John.Mr. Hunt said it was Mr. Johnson.The world of the assassination is a forest of mirrors--and John Armstrong says they all make the CIA look fat.

[SeamusCoogan]

Bob wrote:SeamusCoogan wrote:Yes this is a debate best served on another thread.Patrick J Buchanan your not talking about the Pat Buchanan are you? Oh you are.Ah Im supposed to be respectful of others views but firstly, I am very cynical of anyone who would promote Pat Buchanan over Jim Douglas. In particularly because of Buchanans. Sheeeeeesh.This book is valuable, though, in supplying some information about Prouty as a "focal point officer". According to what Douglass writes, pages 196-7, Prouty was much more than the benign person he was portrayed as in The Men Who Killed Kennedy. In fact, he had to have been a CIA asset to undertake the duties ascribed to by Dulles in the book. And yet, we are expected to believe from his Secret Team that he didn't sign any Official Secrets Act, or whatever it's called, and so he was able to write the book. This strikes me as pure BS.Prouty's book got pulled off of bookshelf in America. Furthermore, I was in contact with Jim Marrs and he said to me you could and I quote you "Go to the Bank on Prouty." Ill tell you what is bullshit the crap thats been said about Prouty and the Chch Star that he had no control over and what he was badly mistaken.Were you implying Prouty is a plant of some kind? Did you know that all and I mean 'all' copies of his book the secret team got taken off of the shelves. As for Marrs, Marrs stuff on Kennedy is good. Thats all Im going to say. Marrs by the way told me via email some 7 years ago that you could go to the bank on Prouty as far was he was concernedDouglas and prouty are not perfect. I have Douglas sitting around about 93% out of 100, and I have Prouty sitting at a highly respectable 77-85% which is about as much as I give Marrs on Jfk out of 100 respectively. Baring in mind in my ratings system someones gotta have a pass mark of at least 65 or over to pass. Jim Di and Lisa lol well you all know where I put em. Buchanan sheeeeesh man Negative 50, a few places below Dave Lifton lol.Seamus, while I certainly agree with you about Pat Buchanon, I think you are a bit harsh with David Lifton. Maybe he's not well liked in some circles, but I think he brought a very interesting perspective to the table with his book...Best Evidence. Did he make errors? Hell...it goes with the territory. But his theory was spot on. JFK's wounds were INDEED altered. I also think Jim Marrs is great (as is Robert Groden), and James Douglass wrote a fantastic book this year (JFK and the Unspeakable)...the best JFK assassination book in years. I also really liked Russ Baker's book Family of Secrets. Jim DiEugenio is probably the best overall researcher in the business right now. MarK Lane is a legend and he still can bring it. It was Lane and Jim Garrison that made me become a interested observer and a so called "researcher" when I was in college. Speaking of legends...Fletcher Prouty is the man! There are many other great researchers like Jack White, Lisa Pease, Mary Ferrell, Tom Rossley and so many others. We don't agree on everything, but our basis for a conspiracy is solid, well researched and validated. I also applaud all the work Wim has done, not only with his book Files on JFK and his vids, but also with all the great information on this site and putting together this forum.Oh god of course he retired from political sphere at the time. Your right the barstad was around. However, judging by my delving into Dulles the last while. Bush, never really garners to much of a mention other than Dulles with his brother shoring up the deals these guys did with the Nazi's. But I mean theres a long list of business guys who they helped out along the way. The leverage Dulles had on these guys was pretty severe and when you run the CIA and you know these guys secrets well your in a pretty powerful position. Lucky they were friends. Lol. Im usually very good and the Prescott thing got me lol cheers heaps for correction my good man. But on the other issues lol I am rather well informed, and yes I did know that Pawley got him the job at CIA or did I say CBS. Without his brother of the bone Harrimen, our boy Bush would have been a very poor speciman it would seem.

[kenmurray]

Spies "Diplomacy-CIA Style": Guatemala:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z17ClUJO ... re=related