Things that went wrong

[ThomZajac]

I don't think I'll be breaking any new ground with this post, but I certainly would welcome input/feedback/expansion-Seems to me that from the perspective of the conspirators, at least two things went horribly wrong. First, JFK was not mortally wounded with the initial shots; this resulted in Greer bringing the car to a virtual stop and the fatal shot being fired from the front. Imagine how straight forward everything would have been if Kennedy had been hit in the head with three shots from behind; the body would not have needed to be stolen away from Dallas. no alterations would have been necessary, and a real autopsy could have been performed. The shot from the front made the coverup infinitely more complicated. Second, I think it's pretty clear that Oswald was not supposed to be brought in alive (the two likely scenarios are that he was either to be killed prior to arrest, or he was to be flown to Cuba or shot down attempting to do so- but I haven't really seen much evidence to support the flight to Cuba scenario). Anyway, Oswald alive and in custody had to have been a nightmare scenario for the conspirators! Take away those two problems, and the coverup would have been much less apparent.Your thoughts?

[Jsnow915]

sounds reasonable Thom...just think of powerfully tying Oswald to Cuba....the Powers that be could have attacked Cuba the way they really wanted to.

[Bob]

Good point on both fronts Thom. Yes indeed, JFK was supposed to be killed from behind, either by Nicoletti in the Dal-Tex building, or by Richard Cain/David Morales in the TSBD. However, Jimmy Files ruined all that by firing from the knoll after he didn't see a kill shot up to that point. The shot from Files came right after a shot from behind by Nicoletti had hit JFK in the head. That is why the head shot was so horrific, as both impacts caused a very gory scene. But it also was very apparent that the last shot came from the front right. Yes, Oswald was supposed to be killed before he ever came into custody by the man known as the Raven, Gary Marlow. Marlow instead killed J.D. Tippit instead. Marlow met Files after that and told Files what had happened at the motel Files was staying at.The conspirators needed Jack Ruby to finish the job on Oswald, but it was very tenuous time for the conspirators. Please see this thread I started a few weeks ago...David Atlee Phillips at LHO's press conference?The thread discusses why David Atlee Phillips (Oswald's CIA handler) may have been at Dallas police headquarters, along FBI agent Hosty, who was Oswald's contact at the FBI.The Zapruder film was kept away from the American public until 1975 because it is very apparent that the last shot came from the front right, no matter how much doctoring may have taken place with the film. Plus, the Warren Commission had certainly seen the film and that is why they needed the bullshit "magic bullet" theory. However, the shot from Files made it very apparent that the film should be kept away from the public for as long as possible.

[JDB4JFK]

Bob that's something that has always puzzled me? With all the people they have killed or discredited to cover up the conspiracy why didn't they destroy the Zapruder film to make it much harder to prove a conspiracy? I'm glad they didn't but it just seems odd because I don't know how anyone can watch the Zapruder film, even though it has been doctored, and say Kennedy didn't get hit from the front! Also doctors at Parkland hospital said that Kennedy's throat wound was an entry wound and Connley's chest wound was an entry wound! So there was more then Jimmy shooting from the front.

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

JDB4JFK wrote:Bob that's something that has always puzzled me? With all the people they have killed or discredited to cover up the conspiracy why didn't they destroy the Zapruder film to make it much harder to prove a conspiracy? I'm glad they didn't but it just seems odd because I don't know how anyone can watch the Zapruder film, even though it has been doctored, and say Kennedy didn't get hit from the front! Also doctors at Parkland hospital said that Kennedy's throat wound was an entry wound and Connley's chest wound was an entry wound! So there was more then Jimmy shooting from the front.I tend to agree, however I think Wim has information that the throat wound was caused by an fragment that exited from the mercury-loaded head-shot bullet.Then again, there were TWO shell casings found, and the doctors at Parkland DID say that the throat wound was one of ENTRANCE. Very good points, by the way.Also, don't ever hesitate to ask questions or post things that might have already been posted. It's the way we ALL learn more, by discussion and sharing information, even if it's old information.

[ChristophMessner]

If the throat wound ever was an entrance wound, where did it exit? Cause the neck is very soft ... Maybe the Zapruder film was copied very early and from that time on the copy possessor always could say: "It's useless to destroy it, I have a copy and I don't tell you where!" So the original wasn't destroyed anymore. I don't believe that Marlow killed Tippit "instead". He killed Tippit, because Tippit caught him accidently on his way to Oswald. But from where did Marlow know, where to meet Oswald? Did he expect, that they would have caught Oswald already at that time? It has to be considered, that if Oswald would have been shot in the TSBD already, it would have been more difficult to convince the public that he would be the assassin.

[Jsnow915]

heres something to ponder...IF Marlow killed Oswald,which was suppossedly what he was to do...then who would be framed for Kennedy's killing?

[ThomZajac]

Bob wrote "Oswald was supposed to be killed before he ever came into custody by the man known as the Raven, Gary Marlow. Marlow instead killed J.D. Tippit instead. Marlow met Files after that and told Files what had happened at the motel Files was staying at."If you have time Bob, could you tell me what the Oswald murder plan was? Do you know what police car (or impostor police car) stopped and beeped at Oswald's boarding house? And I seem to remember someone's gun jamming at the movie theatre; was that a policeman's? Also, the guy (Brewer?) who called police because he saw Oswald duck into the theatre, do I remember him being a friend of Ruby?

[Bob]

ThomZajac wrote:Bob wrote "Oswald was supposed to be killed before he ever came into custody by the man known as the Raven, Gary Marlow. Marlow instead killed J.D. Tippit instead. Marlow met Files after that and told Files what had happened at the motel Files was staying at."If you have time Bob, could you tell me what the Oswald murder plan was? Do you know what police car (or impostor police car) stopped and beeped at Oswald's boarding house? And I seem to remember someone's gun jamming at the movie theatre; was that a policeman's? Also, the guy (Brewer?) who called police because he saw Oswald duck into the theatre, do I remember him being a friend of Ruby?I can only speculate on the knowledge that I know about this. I think Oswald was going to be killed by Marlow and have the crime scene set up as a shoot out with police or some authority group, perhaps the FBI, knowing Hoover's ego. I also think Tippit was in on the plot. To which degree, I don't know. Some people think it was Tippit's car that beeped at Oswald's boarding house. One story I have heard said that Tippit was going to drive Oswald to the airport. Bottom line, the Tippit murder by Marlow was not just a accidental circumstance.A policeman said that it was Oswald's gun that jammed at the theater. But there have been a lot of statements by Dallas policemen at the time that turned out to be NOT true, and were just an attempt to pin JFK's murder on LHO.I don't know about a relationship between Brewer and Ruby, but the arrest of Oswald seems to be a set up. Somebody blew the whistle on LHO being at the theater, probably either David Atlee Phillips or Agent Hosty of the FBI. Again, my take on Oswald was that he was an operative of the CIA, who was really a double agent. Oswald was also an informant to the FBI, that had warned the FBI twice about the impending JFK assassination attempt. Phillips and company knew that Oswald's cover made LHO a perfect patsy. However, I am sure that there were a few people that were also possible patsies, depending on how the assassination went down. I think Chauncey Holt could have been a possible patsy as well.Bottom line, a lot did go wrong for the conspirators that day, like the shot from Files and other things, but to this day, the OFFICIAL version of how that murder went down is exactly as the Warren Commission described. Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin and the "magic bullet" theory is real. That version has been kept alive for 45 years by the U.S. government.Embarrassing.

[ThomZajac]

Bob wrote:ThomZajac wrote:Bob wrote "Oswald was supposed to be killed before he ever came into custody by the man known as the Raven, Gary Marlow. Marlow instead killed J.D. Tippit instead. Marlow met Files after that and told Files what had happened at the motel Files was staying at."If you have time Bob, could you tell me what the Oswald murder plan was? Do you know what police car (or impostor police car) stopped and beeped at Oswald's boarding house? And I seem to remember someone's gun jamming at the movie theatre; was that a policeman's? Also, the guy (Brewer?) who called police because he saw Oswald duck into the theatre, do I remember him being a friend of Ruby?I can only speculate on the knowledge that I know about this. I think Oswald was going to be killed by Marlow and have the crime scene set up as a shoot out with police or some authority group, perhaps the FBI, knowing Hoover's ego. I also think Tippit was in on the plot. To which degree, I don't know. Some people think it was Tippit's car that beeped at Oswald's boarding house. One story I have heard said that Tippit was going to drive Oswald to the airport. Bottom line, the Tippit murder by Marlow was not just a accidental circumstance.A policeman said that it was Oswald's gun that jammed at the theater. But there have been a lot of statements by Dallas policemen at the time that turned out to be NOT true, and were just an attempt to pin JFK's murder on LHO.I don't know about a relationship between Brewer and Ruby, but the arrest of Oswald seems to be a set up. Somebody blew the whistle on LHO being at the theater, probably either David Atlee Phillips or Agent Hosty of the FBI. Again, my take on Oswald was that he was an operative of the CIA, who was really a double agent. Oswald was also an informant to the FBI, that had warned the FBI twice about the impending JFK assassination attempt. Phillips and company knew that Oswald's cover made LHO a perfect patsy. However, I am sure that there were a few people that were also possible patsies, depending on how the assassination went down. I think Chauncey Holt could have been a possible patsy as well.Bottom line, a lot did go wrong for the conspirators that day, like the shot from Files and other things, but to this day, the OFFICIAL version of how that murder went down is exactly as the Warren Commission described. Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin and the "magic bullet" theory is real. That version has been kept alive for 45 years by the U.S. government.Embarrassing.Thanks again, Bob. I am curious about going to the airport (Redbird?) scenario though- what have you got on this? I'm curious because something just doesn't seem right to me about a plan to kill Oswald so far away from the scene. I mean that could very well have been, but I'm not sold on that yet. I have heard over the years things along the line that Oswald balked about going to the airport, and that there was another police uniform in the Tippit's car. Having Oswald fly to Cuba- and probably shot down- just seems like a master stroke. I admit, I haven't come across much evidence to support it, but I haven't come across much evidence about a plan to murder Oswald in Dallas either.By the way, Wim, I believe, offered a reward to the person who could identify the man in the Files photo; was it Marlow, and did you collect? (And please let me know when my questions become too many and/or too burdensome).