The shots that didn't come from TSBD and DalTex either ...

[Phil Dragoo]

Tom Robinson could have driven his hearse through the throat wound by the time he saw it.I like that Perry said it looked like a wound of entrance and that John Ritchson posited it was done with just such a weapon as a Remington XP-100 Fireball on this very site:http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/ritchson.htmEXPERT SPEAKS OUTJFK's Throat Wound The throat wound itself was also much too small to have been made by a 6.5mm FMJ projectile, either entrance or exit. Its size is indicative of having been made by a .22 caliber projectile consistant with a Remington Fireball as presented by Bob Vernon in the James Files scenerio.(I know Bob! James Files is claiming the kill-shot, but I've seen many occasions where multible shooters have argued over just who made a kill-shot, from combat situations to deer hunters arguing over who gets to tag the deer, each one believing he fired the fatal shot. Sam McClung's work on the photo evidence proves to me at least, the presence of a possible hit-team positioned at that location, which is also consistant with the James Files scenerio. Also, consistant with the Files scenerio is the discovery at that location of a .222 Remington cartridge which developer, Wayne Leek chambered his Fireball prototypes to fire. John Ritchson(SSGT. 499th TC USATC HG US Army Class of 69)(GunSmith/Ballistician,Black Eagle Gun Works)(Survivor, SE Asian Games, 11BRAVO7,Tet 1970)Files' mercury round entered the right temple and blew out the occipital leaving behind the high trail of particles on the right-left x-ray.I think he's protecting the shooter who holed the windshield. Why no bullet found? Either Kellerman or Humes got there first.Or it was an ice bullet.Into a blender place a tray of ice, a cup of lime juice, 4 ounces of Jose Cuervo Commerativo; blend on high for four bars, pour into a salt-rimmed sabot. Ole.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUTf5qvS0Lo

[Kirk]

Phil, Tom, Bob and the GangPersonally for me the throat wound is only truly important at this point as to the individual that might have pulled the trigger, which if so, and if alive might lead to evidences of others that played a part.I think we have moved way past the necessary threshold to prove possible conspiracy in the assassination. The evidence now proves without a reasonable doubt that conspiracy was not only possible, or probable, but actual reality. We can argue/debate on angles, positions, even numbers of shots and people involved. I think that is still extremely important, even if we seem at times to be beating a dead horse. I think the constant reexamination of the evidences will lead to the ultimate truth of what happened. I am an optimist when it comes to the truth willing out, but I am as impatient as any and maybe at times even more so. The Waiting as Petty sang is the hardest part.We know that the best shot for a lone nut would have been from the front, whether sniping from the 6th floor facing the motorcade coming down Houston, or from either Knoll looking up to Elm. This is because a target is easier to aim and hit as it appoaches, and gives more time as well. If made from the TSBD it might hurt one's escape, and reveal one's position, but being a lone nut, why would one care about that, and in fact, if this was to make a name for oneself then that is what you would probably want. If from either Knoll the frontal shot would actually help escape by being both hidden and having multiple routes to get away. This would be for the lone nut that was crazy enough to think he might be able to get away with it.Of course the evidences shows that there was not a lone nut in Dealey that day, but a number of sociopaths probably working in concert with each other.I loved the Rigteous Brothers and Phil Spector's wall of sound as oppose to Arlen Specters wall of noise.

[Bob]

ThomZajac wrote:Bob wrote:Doubting Thomas...nobody loved more madly than these guys...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvtZTkl0qWgThere is another thing about the back wound that didn't make it appear too obvious. The wound itself did not have an exit area out of JFK's chest. The wound only went in a few inches. One of the two FBI agents at the autopsy surmised that an ice bullet may have been used. Also, remember JFK was also wearing a cumbersome back brace, that kept JFK upright for the kill shot. Keep me appraised of your trip to FLA my friend.Hey, maybe the entry wound to the throat was caused by an ice bullet? (What's good for the goose is good for gander or something like that....)Here is some information I ran across...In 1963, the ice bullet was only able to be shot in a specially made hand gun, with a maximum, effective kill range of 25 - 50 feet. The longer ranges were only effective with shots to the eye, or unprotected throat. Ice does not obtain the speed, impact and penetration velocity of lead to kill consistently.Additionally, this was outdoor Dallas, Texas in warm, sunny weather. You can't site around and walk around and wait to shoot an ice bullet. You have a very limited time frame within which to act.Have you ever seen the CIA ice pistol? The CIA actually had one. It looks like a CO-2 pellet pistol, which it is designed off of. In 1963 they shot with compressed gases. Think about it, gun powder, heat, and the explosion of firing would melt and/or shatter an ice bullet. Hence the major problem with all ice guns.There was certainly no ice bullet rifle on 11/22/1963.On 11/22/1963 JFK was wearing not one, but two heavy duty back braces. Only one is mentioned in the Warren Commission Report, but both are in the National Archives. The second brace was even heavier, and added days before the assassination.When they probed JFK'S naked back, they felt the back of a bullet. It is referenced in several writings.In terms about the the hole in the front windshield, Jim Garrison's video of the JFK Limo at Parkland Hospital was taken less than five minutes after JFK was shot. The video clearly shows a chip in the window with a slight crack. No through and through hole that everyone seems to be talking about. Assuming that a bullet went through the windshield, JFK would have been hit in the throat with a flattened bullet that would have tore his throat apart. In that case there would have easily been a flattened bullet as evidence.No .22 or ice bullet could penetrate the windshield, and still do minimal damage to JFK'S throat. Virtually impossible for that penetration with those types of ammunition anyway.If JFK was hit in the throat by some angle over, under, around or through the windshield, there would have been a bullet, or an exit wound. There was neither.Jimmy Files has always maintained that the throat wound was an exit wound from his Wolfman's custom made, mercury filled hollow point.It was later discovered that the throat wound was traced as an exit wound (Thom Robinson saw that). But if the doctor's were unfamiliar with exploding hollow points, they would not think along those lines. Also time was limited, and it was chaos in the emergency room, certainly not just a normal gun shot wound treatment in a normal emergency room setting, and situation.Also remember this...This was a heavy duty limousine, shatter proof, bullet resistant or bullet proof windshield. This was a car that had a bullet proof or bullet resistant bubble designed for it, that was not in use that day. This wasn't a Ford Pinto front windshield.

[Dealey Joe]

That is good info Bob, answers a few questions at least about the windshield.Where did the all the way through theory come from?

[kenmurray]

Limo to Detroit:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01oaxb00 ... re=related

[ThomZajac]

Bob wrote:Also remember this...This was a heavy duty limousine, shatter proof, bullet resistant or bullet proof windshield. This was a car that had a bullet proof or bullet resistant bubble designed for it, that was not in use that day. This wasn't a Ford Pinto front windshield.I'm not sure the above is true, Bob, I seem to remember reading that the limousine was not fortified in any way: no heavier 'armor', no bullet-proof windshield, no special anti-deflating tires (this changed AFTER the assassination). The bubble (not used that day) was certainly not bullet proof, and was no more bullet-resistant than any other bubble used to protect occupants from the WEATHER. I'm pretty sure this was a stock Lincoln converted to have a third row of seats, and other than that it was exactly what anyone would have purchased at a Ford dealership.Bet you a beer-

[Dealey Joe]

maybe this will help some?Kennedy Limousine SS-100-XFor the Kennedy White House, the Secret Service purchased a convertible parade limousine custom built by Hess & Eisenhart of Cincinnati, Ohio from a 1961 Lincoln 4-door convertible. Code named the SS-100-X, it was in this car that JFK was assassinated in 1963. By that time, the front of the car had been updated with the grille/headlight/bumper assembly from the 1962 model. After the assassination, the limousine was returned to Hess & Eisenhart, where it was repaired and retrofitted with full armor and a fixed roof. It subsequently continued in service for the White House for many years. This world-famous car is now on display at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan.the decision not to install the plexi-glass "bubble-top" had been made. A clear partition between the driver's compartment and rear area was also not installed. The jumps seats are folded up. Blue broadcloth lap robes with hand-embroidered Presidential seals fit snugly into special pockets in the rear doors. The "Quick Fix"In the wake of the assassination, a task force of some thirty experts, from government and outside, assembled to incorporate lessons learned from the tragedy into a new parade car. A committee of six was appointed, including representatives of the Secret Service, the U.S. Army Materials Research Center, Hess & Eisenhardt, and Pittsburgh Plate Glass. The most practical solution, they decided, was to rebuild the X-100.The White House endorsed the plan. On December 12, the X-100 arrived at the Hess & Eisenhardt Company in Cincinnati, Ohio, the original modifiers of the car. The rebuilding, or "Project D-2" began when the car was officially released by the Warren Commission on December 20.Dubbed the "Quick Fix," the project resulted in: -- improved armoring including a permanent metal top to secure the fixed bullet-resistant glass panels,-- areas re-enforced to accept increased weight of new armor,-- supplemental air-conditioning unit in the trunk to cool the sealed passenger compartment,-- retriming of rear compartment,-- new, hand-built high-compression motor for a 17 percent gain in power.The "Quick Fix" was completed on May 11, 1964 at a cost of over $500,000, shared by Ford Motor Company, some of their suppliers, and the federal government. A major factor in the cost was the production of the bullet-resistant high-grade "water white" glass by Pittsburgh Plate Glass, estimated at $125,000. The 13 glass panels ranged in thickness from one-inch to 1 13/16-inches -- the rear roof section was the largest piece of bullet-resistant cast glass produced to date, weighing in at around 1,500 pounds. The bullet-resisting process involved sandwiching polycarbonate vinyl between each of five layers of plate glass.The car's body armor was primarily 3/8-inch titanium steel plate, costing $13,573. Although its strength makes it difficult to cut and shape, the alloy was used behind the rear seat, within the rear doors and quarter panels, the front roof panel and side roof rails. The rear floor was augmented with 1/8-inch HY-100 steel plate, processing a tensile strength of 100,000 pounds-per-square-inch, effective against bombs and mines. Tires were made bullet-resistant by fastening a solid tire to the rim, to be contained within a regular pneumatic tire. The fuel tank was treated was a new flame-suppressant called "Safom," an open-foamed elastomer developed by Firestone.When completed on May 11, 1964, the "Quick Fix" represented an intensive engineering feat. Ford extensively tested the vehicle at its facilities in Dearborn before returning the X-100 to the White House

[ThomZajac]

Thanks Joe!

[Bob]

Okay, lets forget about the limo...but NOT the windshield. The throat wound was the main reason for my post above. Again...riddle me this (or refute this)...In terms about the the hole in the front windshield, Jim Garrison's video of the JFK Limo at Parkland Hospital was taken less than five minutes after JFK was shot. The video clearly shows a chip in the window with a slight crack. No through and through hole that everyone seems to be talking about.Assuming that a bullet went through the windshield, JFK would have been hit in the throat with a flattened bullet that would have tore his throat apart. In that case there would have easily been a flattened bullet as evidence.No .22 or ice bullet could penetrate the windshield, and still do minimal damage to JFK'S throat. Virtually impossible for that penetration with those types of ammunition anyway.If JFK was hit in the throat by some angle over, under, around or through the windshield, there would have been a bullet, or an exit wound. There was neither.Jimmy Files has always maintained that the throat wound was an exit wound from his Wolfman's custom made, mercury filled hollow point.It was later discovered that the throat wound was traced as an exit wound (Thom Robinson saw that). But if the doctor's were unfamiliar with exploding hollow points, they would not think along those lines. Also time was limited, and it was chaos in the emergency room, certainly not just a normal gun shot wound treatment in a normal emergency room setting, and situation.

[JDThomas]

If anyone has not yet done so please check-out Doug Weldon's seminar presentation on Richard DellaRosa's youtube site:http://www.youtube.com/user/richdellGoes into detail about the limo and the windshield.Now that DellaRoa has passed away, there's no guarantee that his site will remain