JFK Throat Wound: Exit or Entry?

[steve manning]

While many medical professionals at Parkland expressed the opinion the throat wound was a wound of entrance, it must be remembered there were a limited number of these people who saw the throat wound, Correct! But ALL who saw the wound, described it the same way....UNIFORMITY! All within approx. 15-20 minutes after the event! Further, doesn't it seem strange there were no discrepancies? Again, these people were experts! This evidence deserves way more weight than any evidence discovered 6 hours or more later. Yes, there simply had to be an opportunity to alter the body within all that time; had to be. Why? Because it was done; as Lifton said, the body is the strongest piece of evidence in the case, and is a diagram of the shooting. His body had to be removed from the ceremonial casket somewhere? Probably, during the misdirection of all the proceedings at Andrews AFB, and the subsequent ambulance ride to Bethesda hospital. Somehow the removed his body ahead of time and left the casket empty during that ride. More likely, perhaps by the secret service just following their abrupt departure from Parkland, with the body. You must have already read Lifton's work in this area. I realize it has been discovered that he made 1 or 2 error's in judgment, in his hypothesis, but not to this part of his theory. Due to the timing of the arrival of the body at the back door of the morgue, which was preceded by an obvious incoming chopper on the pad. Furthermore, according to Paul O'Connor, the body arrived in a "pinkish gray shipping casket." I talked to Paul on the phone several times back in the nineties and he was one of the 2 men who lifted JFK out of the shipping casket. There would have been enough time to alter the body over at Walter Reed, and fly the body by chopper to Bethesda, and arrive before the cerimonial casket even arrived, as the x-ray tech, Jerroll Custer has stated. He had already taken film of the body and was walking through the hospital toward the front entrance of the building, on his way to develop the film, when he saw the ambulance pull up out front. I talked with him as well and confirmed his story.The rule of thumb for bullet exit wounds, even those made by non-expanding full metal jacket bullets, is that the exit wound is invariably larger than the entrance wound. While this may not seem possible for a non-expanding FMJ bullet, any bullet travelling through soft tissue at supersonic velocities advances a large shock wave ahead of it; disrupting surrounding tissue and exiting the soft tissue with the telltale larger exit wound. This is one of the main reasons for rejecting the SBT, as these same Parkland physicians described the throat wound as being 3-8 mm in diameter. However, could the throat wound not be an exit wound, if the fragment that caused it was only 1-2 mm in diameter?[/quote]You have already given evidence of your ability to explain yourself well in previous paragraphs? However, you must have been in a hurry with this section...I fail to see how it even suggests, let alone proves the throat wound was a wound of exit? An entrance wound at the base of the throat could have easily deflected upward off the spinal column, and at least caused track able wound from the skull cavity. Thanks,Steve

[steve manning]

We have to govern our bias so it doesn’t steer the process, to the point where we're standing on nothing but assumption. Just for example, the notion of mercury in the round. I’m not saying I believe there wasn't, but I am saying the only evidence we have is the testimony of James Files. You then went on to base several other points on that assumption. He could have been sincerely mistaken that it was his round that actually hit from the front (or perhaps Files shot still hit, but the dominant projectile was some other shot; presumably fired simultaneously). In fact, I don’t think the Files trajectory lines up. I’ve never been there but from Google earth, I’m not the only one who’s noticed that Files location would have been virtually perpendicular to the right side of JFK’s head. Meaning, if that were true, the exit wound should have been closer to being behind his left ear (or right through it) not the right. There is ample evidence to show there were more shooters in the plaza than Files and Nicoletti. Why couldn’t it be possible there was at least one shooter to the right of Files; perhaps somewhere near the entrance to the overpass, who fired simultaneously with Files? If such a thing were true, it would have changed the trajectory significantly. In his book, “Conspiracy of Silence,” Dr. Charles Crenshaw said, after the body was placed in the ceremonial casket, he went back and carefully inspected the wounds one more time. His observations were within 45 minutes of the shooting, which meant there was no time to alter the body. In his expert medical opinion, he said there was a fairly definite plowed out area in the skull, from the temple, all the way to the exit wound behind the left ear. By comparison, this is high ranking evidence that should be given ample weight. Its not about taking a little from everyone’s viewpoint, and then to homogenize all of it. Its about ranking evidence according to some scientific principles of interpretation (The Science of Hermeneutics), AND TO ACTUALLY APPLY THOSE PRINCIPLES. The trick is to discover what happened, based on the evidence alone; never disturbing it with our own bias.

[Dealey Joe]

Problem is there is very little pure proof in the case, you have to have a little understanding of a mercury charged round in order to consider the actul wound then trust any picture you are seeing is true?At what point do you start considering something as proof?

[steve manning]

Well Joe, not all evidence is strong, and that 's the point. You should know how it ranks first, then you can decide how much weight it warrants; particularly by comparison with anything else that could potentially conflict. That would be only one of the ways you would measure it. You learn to rank the evidence by studying hermeneutics (the science and art of literal interpretation). Having said that, I don't think you need to be able to split the atom, to have a respectable understanding of a mercury round. I've fired plenty of different weapons in my life and also read everything you're site says about them and more. To start with, I don't believe the skull exploded to the degree you all seem to claim. It took us way too long before we heard about it, but Dr. Charles Crenshaw probably took the most time inspecting the wounds, within the closet proximity to the event in real time (30-45 min. after shooting; leaving less or no time to alter the body), and he was apparently the last one to look at the body prior to its leaving Parkland. He claims to have gone back to look one last time while the body was in the ceremonial casket. He said (paraphrasing because I no longer have a copy), in addition to the missing brain tissue below the cerebellum, there was a cone shaped, plowed out trajectory through the brain (from front to rear). He was hit in the right temple, barely in the hairline, and it exited behind the right ear; obviously, the exit wound was huge as they've all said. Again, this is high ranking evidence by comparison in this case, its just that we found out about it kinda late. Based on that tid-bit of diagnostic insight, it would seem to conflict with the idea of a major explosion inside the skull, or at the least, not as big as many claim. However, I do believe the brain looked much worse at the "official autopsy" in Bethesda, no question. But again, that is because there was an obvious pre-autopsy done, where at least part of his brain was removed, and it looked like a bomb went off in his skull, according to Paul O'connor, who lifted JFK's body out of the shipping casket and laid him on the table. He was at JFK's head, and able to look right down into his skull. Whoever did it also stretched JFK’s scalp back over the exit wound in the rear before the pics were done.I do believe he was hit twice in the head, one right after the other (and an outside possibly of a third, that would of had to have been simultaneous with the Files shot, assuming there was one).

[steve manning]

Incidentally, I did mean, "if there was" a 3rd shot, not if Files really shot; I have no doubts he did...

[Bob Lilly]

The throat wound is an entry wound according to logic and supported by the evidence;1. Moment of Opportunity - watching the Zapruder film we see Kennedy looking to the right just before he disappears behind the Stemmons Freeway sign and when he reappears he has been hit. His hands raised, elbows out, trying to cough up a bullet which makes his head move forward. Go ahead and cough like this. Now, the knoll shooter is to the right of Zapruder so he sees Kennedy emerge from behind the sign before the Zapruder camera does. Its at this moment he takes his shot and we see that Kennedy has been hit just before he emerges to our view (the camera view).2. Line of Fire - Kennedy's head and throat were both pointed towards the knoll, towards the gunman when he was hit so the shot came from there.3. Eye witnesses - Both the doctors and Mrs Kennedy say he was hit in the throat and one of the hospital photos shows the little entry round hole before they cut it for tube insertion.4. Timing - we can all see that he reacts to the throat wound before his head was destroyed by what may have been an explosive bullet. Throat wound then head wound, so throat wound could not have been caused by the head shot which came afterwards.Best Bob

[JDB4JFK]

Bob are you the Bob Lilly who played for the Cowboys? If so you were in Dallas when all this was happening.

[RobertP]

Bob Lilly wrote:The throat wound is an entry wound according to logic and supported by the evidence;1. Moment of Opportunity - watching the Zapruder film we see Kennedy looking to the right just before he disappears behind the Stemmons Freeway sign and when he reappears he has been hit. His hands raised, elbows out, trying to cough up a bullet which makes his head move forward. Go ahead and cough like this. Now, the knoll shooter is to the right of Zapruder so he sees Kennedy emerge from behind the sign before the Zapruder camera does. Its at this moment he takes his shot and we see that Kennedy has been hit just before he emerges to our view (the camera view).2. Line of Fire - Kennedy's head and throat were both pointed towards the knoll, towards the gunman when he was hit so the shot came from there.3. Eye witnesses - Both the doctors and Mrs Kennedy say he was hit in the throat and one of the hospital photos shows the little entry round hole before they cut it for tube insertion.4. Timing - we can all see that he reacts to the throat wound before his head was destroyed by what may have been an explosive bullet. Throat wound then head wound, so throat wound could not have been caused by the head shot which came afterwards.Best Bob Do you think the same shooter shot JFK in the throat, as well as in the head?

[JDThomas]

Hi Robert, sorry if I'm not up to speed on this as I haven't re-read your previous posts. Some earlier researcher claimed that the size of the frontal throat wound was too small to have been caused by an intact bullet - maybe not even a .22. This being the case, could it have been the result of a fragment or else a glass shard from a frontal windshield impact shot? I've no evidence at all to back this up and am just thinking-out aloud. Although the wound was said to be neat, reducing the likelihood of being caused by a fragment or shard, a shard at least would be small in size, unlikely show-up on X-ray and could easily be missed in a path examination and not have the velocity to produce an exit wound. That being said however, I would imagine that someone else would also have sustained injury from such a hit. From what has been posted recently, I have no clear conviction as to from where the frontal throat shot was fired from nor from where the 3rd thoracic back wound shot was fired from except that they did not come from the so-called 'sniper's nest!'

[steve manning]

doug weldon has done some great work in this area, dont have a link but his stuff is out there on youtube.