The .38 Auto Shells

[kjell roald]

The .38 Auto Shellshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjRHGZQXRxM

[kenmurray]

Gerald Hill seem to be everywhere on 11/22/63. To me he along with Will Fritz and Wade were involved in the cover up.It's very hard to mistake a revolver shell from from an automatic one. There is an OBVIOUS difference between the two.

[Phil Dragoo]

Phil's forward:I have always been entranced by the blissful circular reasoning of the framers of Oswald, e.g., he killed JFK because he killed Tippit because he shot at Walker because he posed with “the weapon” because because because—because of the sinister things he does!Upon examination, not so much.In fact, not at all.Not. A. Scintilla.Case in point: Magic Bullets from Oswald's Weapon(s) Become Whatever Is Required by the Frame-Up:JFK: The Ruby Connection, Gary Mack's Follies ContinuedPart TwoBy James DiEugeniohttp://www.ctka.net/2009/ruby_mack_2.htmlOne of the more gassy and pretentious devices the show uses is a sub-titled timeline combined with a glass map over which the stage named Gary Mack (real name Larry Dunkel) traces with his finger. In other words, an event will be time stamped on the screen and then Mack/Dunkel will trace and match that with what the other party, say Ruby, was doing at the time. Or else he will trace the path that Ruby traveled from say his apartment to the Western Union station on Sunday morning. I think this was done to give the show a veneer of scientific investigation. In other words, to convince the audience that, as in Dragnet, the show was after "Just the facts, m'am." The problem is that what matters are which facts you choose to time stamp, and how you figure that particular time. And the problems this show has in that regard are revealed very early.For instance, the narrator intones that Oswald took a bus, then a taxi out of Dealey Plaza after the assassination. He then arrived at his rooming house at about 1:00 PM, then Officer J. D. Tippit was shot at 1:15 at 10th and Patton. No surprise, the show agrees with the Warren Commission: Oswald shot him and then fled the scene. I exaggerate very slightly when I say that this is all dealt with in about a minute. In other words it is completely glossed over in order to incriminate Oswald in the Tippit murder. It is never explained that Oswald took a bus headed the wrong way, apparently realized it, and then walked back to the Dealey Plaza area. That he next hailed a taxi, and then offered to give up the taxi to an elderly lady who declined. When she did, he then took the taxi to a point actually past his rooming house. I believe all this is shoved under the rug so the viewer does not ask the logical questions which would follow: 1.) If he shot Kennedy why didn't Oswald stay on the bus and take it to the outskirts of town? 2.) If he was in a hurry to leave the area, why did he return to it? 3.) If he wanted faster transportation out of town, why did he offer to give up the cab ride? 4.) Did he take his taxi past the rooming house in order to scope out if anyone was there?Once Oswald left his rooming house, why was he then last seen waiting for a bus going the wrong way from 10th and Patton, the scene of the Tippit murder? Mack/Dunkel then chose his time of Tippit's murder to roughly match the Warren Commission's time for the shooting. His 1:15 time is specious. But since Mack/Dunkel is protecting the official story he has to do it. But the two most reliable times at the scene of the shooting would make it nearly impossible for Oswald to arrive at the scene of the crime in time to kill Tippit then. Those would be T. F. Bowley and Helen Markham. (Markham did not become hysterical and unreliable until after the shooting.) Bowley said he looked at his watch after he stopped his car near the scene of the shooting. It said 1:10. (John Armstrong, Harvey and Lee, p. 848) Markham had a regular routine where she washed her clothes at the washateria on the first floor of her building, then went to work. By this, she placed the time of the shooting at 1:06. (ibid, Armstrong) It would be incredible for Oswald to have traversed nearly a mile in the time period provided by these witnesses. So the Commission did two things. First, it ignored the actual time of its own reconstruction of the walk from the rooming house to 10th and Patton. It cut about five minutes from it. (Harold Weisberg Whitewash II, p. 25) As Weisberg writes, the Commission "staff got Oswald to the scene of the Tippit murder five minutes after the murder was broadcast on the police radio." (ibid) Second, the Warren Commission requested a verbatim transcript of the police log. They ended up getting three versions of it: one in December, one in April, and one in August. The transcripts did not match each other. For instance, the order for Tippit to move into central Oak Cliff was absent from the first transcript. (See Weisberg, p. 24; Sylvia Meagher, Accessories After the Fact, p. 261) Further, the Secret Service "improvement" of the transcripts began as early as December 6th. (Weisberg, p. 25)The ballistics evidence at the scene of the crime exonerates Oswald further. So much so that it clearly suggests a cover up by the Dallas Police. There were two early reports by the police that the man at the scene was carrying an automatic pistol. In fact, Gerald Hill actually reported that the shells at the scene indicated the suspect was armed with an automatic. (Jim Garrison, On the Trail of the Assassins, p. 198) As both Garrison and Robert Groden (in his book The Search for Lee Harvey Oswald) show, it is hard to believe that anyone who could identify an automatic could mistake it for a revolver. And second, could mistake automatic shells for a revolver's shells.The next Tippit anomaly was that the shells did not match the bullets. The police said there were two Winchester/Western shells and two Remington-Peters shells found at the scene. Yet, turned over to the Commission, were three Winchester copper bullets and one Remington lead bullet. (Armstrong, p. 850) As many have commented, since when does Remington put Winchester bullets in their shells? I say "turned over to the Commission" because the bullets had a strange chain of custody. Instead of sending all the bullets to the FBI lab, the Dallas Police sent only one. (Garrison, p. 199) Probably because they did not want to advertise the fact that the shells and bullets did not add up. They also held up the release of Tippit's autopsy report for three weeks. (Weisberg, p. 28) This tardiness caused errors in the first Secret Service report of Tippit's murder, which said he was shot only twice. When he was actually shot four times. (ibid, p. 26) The absence of an autopsy report also allowed the police to tell the FBI that this was the only bullet found in Tippit's body. (Garrison, p. 199) Which was false. (Weisberg, p. 29)This bullet did not match Oswald's revolver. The reason given was that the bullet was too mutilated. (Armstrong, p. 850) So now the Commission asked the FBI to find the other bullets. Four months later they were found in the files of the Dallas homicide office, the domain of Capt. Will Fritz – aka Barney Fife. (Garrison, ibid) There has never been any cogent reason proffered as to why they were kept from the Bureau and the Commission for that long.But the FBI told the Commission that they still could not find a match. The reason given was that the revolver attributed to Oswald was a .38 Special that had its bullet chambers slightly enlarged so the identification markings were difficult to decipher.(Armstrong, ibid) So now the ballistics evidence relied on the cartridges to link Oswald to the crime. The cartridges, unlike the bullets, were in the province of the police from the time of the murder. At the scene of the crime, the police are supposed to make out a report listing the evidence recovered there. The police did not list any cartridges as first day evidence. (Garrison, p. 200) It was not until six days after the police sent the single bullet to the FBI that the cartridges made it into the evidence summary. Again, why this was so has never been adequately explained. Once they arrived, presto! The FBI said they matched the revolver in evidence.Except there was a huge cloud over this alleged match. At the scene of the crime, Gerald Hill told officer J. M. Poe to mark the shells for identification purposes. (Henry Hurt, Reasonable Doubt, p. 153) This was a routine matter for a homicide detective, which Poe was. In 1984 Poe told author Henry Hurt that he was certain he had done this. When Hurt inspected the shells at the National Archives, Poe's initials were nowhere to be found. (ibid, p. 154) As both Hurt and Garrison write, the ballistics evidence more than suggests that the murderer was not Oswald. That the Dallas Police understood this. That they then fired the revolver in evidence after the fact in order to finally produce shells that matched the revolver.I could go into other aspects of the Tippit murder that exculpate Oswald. A witness said that the killer came up to the right side of the car and might have touched it. Fingerprints were later recovered from that part of the cruiser car. They did not match Oswald's. (Armstrong, p. 861) There was also the allegedly discarded jacket with a laundry tag. The Commission checked 293 laundries in both New Orleans and Dallas but was unable to match the tag or laundry mark on the jacket to any of them. (ibid p. 855) But for me the clincher is the following.When FBI agent Bob Barrett arrived at the scene of the murder, Captain Westbrook asked him two odd questions: "Do you know who Lee Harvey Oswald is?" and then, "Do you know who Alek Hidell is?" Barrett said no to both since Oswald has not been charged yet with the Tippit murder. So how could Westbrook know about him at that time? Because Westbrook had a wallet with both of those name identifications inside. (ibid, p. 862) He found it near a puddle of blood where Tippit's body was. WFAA-TV cameraman Ron Reiland shot film footage of the wallet being passed around to various law enforcement agents at the scene. But the official story has Oswald's wallet being discovered on his person as he was driven from the Texas Theater, where he was apprehended, to City Hall. It was then turned over to Officer C. T. Walker. (ibid, p. 868) Yet, according to the Warren Report, Oswald allegedly left his wallet in a dresser drawer at the Paine household that morning. (p. 15) What kind of a person maintains three wallets? And then carries two wallets to work with him? But worse, if Oswald shot Tippit, why on earth would he leave his wallet at the scene of the crime?In the face of the evidentiary mess above, Mack/Dunkel says that the Tippit murder is an open and shut case: Oswald did it. To which I reply: "Are you for real?" Which, as we shall see, this program is not.

[kjell roald]

Phil Dragoo wrote: At the scene of the crime, Gerald Hill told officer J. M. Poe to mark the shells for identification purposes. (Henry Hurt, Reasonable Doubt, p. 153) This was a routine matter for a homicide detective, which Poe was. In 1984 Poe told author Henry Hurt that he was certain he had done this. When Hurt inspected the shells at the National Archives, Poe's initials were nowhere to be found.Thanks for sharing this. I googled a bit. And I see that Poe told the Warren Comission that he "couldn´t swear" to having marked the shells.But maybe he was under pressure. I also found that there is a Sergeant Barnes who also marked the shells, and then was unable to identify them :"Poe informed the Warren Commission that he believed he had marked them, but he could not swear to it. At the Commission hearing Poe examined four cartridges that were shown to him but was unable to identify his marks on them. Sergeant W.E. Barnes informed the Commission that he had received two cartridges from Officer Poe back at police headquarters and had added his own initials to them. However, he too was unable to positively identify the two shells."http://scribblguy.50megs.com/tippit.htm

[Barney]

In my unsophisticated approach, I think Oswald was a "patsy" as he finally came to realize and talked to Capt. Will Fritiz, attempting toextricate himself via a NY lawyer affiliated with the ACLU. No lawyer was every hired for Oswald, nor were his rights preserved during hismany interrogations by the FBI, CIA, DPD, all of this in spite of Capt. Fritz, and Chief Curry having over 30 yrs. experiences in law enforcement.I believe that copious notes were taken by Fritz during these closed door interviews with Oswald and others on scene. DPD Homicide-Robbery unit had requested such audio-video equipment for over 6 years but the city manager had kicked these items out of Chief Curry's budget every single time, as an unnecessary dept. expense.Oswald had a defective rifle, scope, and a defective S & W revolver that had been modified as to barrel length of 4 inches down to 2.25"and the cylinder was bored out from .38 Colt or S & W, which is a short caliber. His revolver arrived with the snubnose barrel and reboredto caliber .38 Special, a more powerful round than the .38 short. The DPD never accounted for the conditions of the firearms of Oswald, nordid they ever find a box of ammo matching those in Oswald's revolver, which strangely only had 4 rounds in a 6 round cylinder, strange is anyperson expecting trouble or attempts on his life to not have a full cylinder of ammo inside it. Oswald was found to have 5 extra shellsin his pocket. How unlucky can an alleged assassin get?????? A search of the Michael and Ruth Paine house in Irving failed to turn up a boxof .38 special ammo of any mfg. or date of mfg. ,which seems strange for an alleged killer on the loose. The Michael and Ruth Paine story isa whole new chapter in the life of LHO and Marina Oswald. Both had ties to the US Intelligence community thru family ties and Michael beingan engineer for Bell Helicopter, wherein, his stepfather invented the Bell model helicopter that was used so widely in various configurationsduring the Vietnam and other wars in SE Asia. The Air Cavalry rode to the sounds and scenes of battle aboard helicopters versus Custer riding forth to the sounds and scene of battle aboard horseflesh.Ruby was identified by a Texas Theater teenage patron as being inside the theater lower level and near the rear of the seating arrangementin the very back. This man remarked to Ruby maybe we better get out here, those cops are wrestling with a guy who had a gun in his hand.Ruby turned back to watch the scuffle between LHO and the DPD at that point and spoke not a word in response. When the media carried over thetv news the murder of LHO in the DPD basement, this young man recognized Ruby, as the man he spoke to in the Texas Theater but didntdecide to come forward due to fears for his life and family after the assassination of LHO and Kennedy, and other witenesses who saw orspoke too much about this conspiracy.

[Robert Wagner]

Oswald's rooming house was at 1026 N Beckley.Beckley and nearby Zang are major streets running north-south.The Texas Theater is at 231 W Jefferson, just west of Zang, 1.0 miles due south of Oswald's rooming house.To walk from the rooming house to the theater, one would go down Beckley or Zang. If he wanted to avoid major streets, he would use Madison, one block west of Zang. Tippit was killed at Patton and 10th, three blocks east of Beckley.Patton runs diagonally from northwest to southeast. Assuming Tippit's killer was coming from Oswald's rooming house, he was not going to Texas Theater.He was going to Ruby's apartment at 323 S Ewing, four blocks southeast of the murder site. Marlow said "we killed a cop," meaning he had a companion. I speculate his companion was Ruby, because:1. Witnesses described the shooter as short and stocky.2. Ruby's assignment was to kill Oswald.3. The shooter headed east, toward Ruby's apartment, then reversed and went west, toward the theater.4. Ruby was at the theater.The gun taken from Oswald at the theater was his, because the serial number matched his invoice.One bullet alleged to have come from Tippit's body matched the gun's ballistic signature. However, the matching bullet was "lost" in the DPD for weeks.Oswald tested negative for gunshot residue.

[Bob]

Robert Wagner wrote:Oswald's rooming house was at 1026 N Beckley.Beckley and nearby Zang are major streets running north-south.The Texas Theater is at 231 W Jefferson, just west of Zang, 1.0 miles due south of Oswald's rooming house.To walk from the rooming house to the theater, one would go down Beckley or Zang. If he wanted to avoid major streets, he would use Madison, one block west of Zang. Tippit was killed at Patton and 10th, three blocks east of Beckley.Patton runs diagonally from northwest to southeast. Assuming Tippit's killer was coming from Oswald's rooming house, he was not going to Texas Theater.He was going to Ruby's apartment at 323 S Ewing, four blocks southeast of the murder site. Marlow said "we killed a cop," meaning he had a companion. I speculate his companion was Ruby, because:1. Witnesses described the shooter as short and stocky.2. Ruby's assignment was to kill Oswald.3. The shooter headed east, toward Ruby's apartment, then reversed and went west, toward the theater.4. Ruby was at the theater.The gun taken from Oswald at the theater was his, because the serial number matched his invoice.One bullet alleged to have come from Tippit's body matched the gun's ballistic signature. However, the matching bullet was "lost" in the DPD for weeks.Oswald tested negative for gunshot residue.Robert...I agree with your synopsis.

[Barney]

According to Hugh Aynesworth, a news reporter for the Dallas Times, Jack Ruby was in the news ad dept. for along while around 12:00pm composing one of his weekly small ads for his Vegas Club and Carousel Club, theformer an afterhours club for rhe more affluent late nite crowd and the Carousel, a stripper bar, booze mill,and hangout for the less wellheeled crowd of Dallas, including many DPD offduty officers because they recd.free snacks and discounted or free drinks via Jack. Hugh saw Jack reading an extra copy of the days newspaperwith the full page ad costing around $1400 back then demonizing JFK and his social and militqary policies. Hewas particulary upset that the ad was allegedly taken out and paid for by one, Bernard Weissman of Dallas. Hekept muttering and occasionally mentioning to reporters still in the office, why would this Jew bastard writesomething like this an have it published in the newspaper, and why did this paper which I patronize agree to printsomething so scurrilous as this in the first place. Dont we Jews have enough problems already from the homegrown nutjobs and Jew haters and other racial bigots without this bastard throwing more fuel on the fire. WhenAynesworth left to go see the Pres. motorcade, Jack had moved over to the desk of one of the chief admen andwas reared back reading the newspaper and fiddling around with his personal business ads. He had already eatena slow breakfast in the newspaper cafeteia and seemed to be in no great hurry to leave there.

[Bob]

Barney wrote:According to Hugh Aynesworth, a news reporter for the Dallas Times, Jack Ruby was in the news ad dept. for along while around 12:00pm composing one of his weekly small ads for his Vegas Club and Carousel Club, theformer an afterhours club for rhe more affluent late nite crowd and the Carousel, a stripper bar, booze mill,and hangout for the less wellheeled crowd of Dallas, including many DPD offduty officers because they recd.free snacks and discounted or free drinks via Jack. Hugh saw Jack reading an extra copy of the days newspaperwith the full page ad costing around $1400 back then demonizing JFK and his social and militqary policies. Hewas particulary upset that the ad was allegedly taken out and paid for by one, Bernard Weissman of Dallas. Hekept muttering and occasionally mentioning to reporters still in the office, why would this Jew bastard writesomething like this an have it published in the newspaper, and why did this paper which I patronize agree to printsomething so scurrilous as this in the first place. Dont we Jews have enough problems already from the homegrown nutjobs and Jew haters and other racial bigots without this bastard throwing more fuel on the fire. WhenAynesworth left to go see the Pres. motorcade, Jack had moved over to the desk of one of the chief admen andwas reared back reading the newspaper and fiddling around with his personal business ads. He had already eatena slow breakfast in the newspaper cafeteia and seemed to be in no great hurry to leave there.First, a belated Happy Birthday to you Barney! Second, please see this about the "crediblity" of Hugh Aynesworth...http://www.ctka.net/aynes.htmlhttp://ww ... worth.html

[Barney]

In the book, Reasonable Doubt, by Henry Hurt, Chapter 12 regarding witness Robert Easterling, the author statesthat around the time of the Clay Shaw trial brought on by Dist. Astty. Big Jim Garrison, that Easterling on seeingnewspaper photos of Clay Shaw and Guy Bannister, realized that he could have been mistaken in the secret meeting by his wealthy New Orleans employer, and Jack Ruby and a companion, to hand over $100,000 collectedfrom ultra-rich Texas oilmen to get rid of Kennedy. He now feels that Easterling was satisfied that he actuallywitnessed Guy Bannister and Jack Ruby come to his employers office, and there were two Cubans waiting outsidein their arrival vehicle. It sounds more likely that Ruby and Bannister were working the Cuban angle than Shaw.