Doug Horne on BOR

[Bob]

Bruce Patrick Brychek wrote:Dear Bob:Great Post. Powerful, and consistent partially with my analysis under my 03.24.2006 Headline about the book, The Texas Connection: The Assassination of John F. Kennedy. Check my Post of 03.24.2009 under that Headline.I think that the Billy Sol Estes Matters, in conjunction with the Bobby Baker Matters, awakened LBJ to his impending Waterloo.From a pure logistics point, I think that while JFK could still have been assassinated in Dallas, Texas easily enough on 11.22.1963, the involvement of LBJ and Bush I helped grease the wheels.Comments ?Respectfully,Bruce Patrick Brychek.I agree Bruce. Plus David Atlee Phillips was from Fort Worth as well, and as you know, Phillips was a key cog to what happened on 11/22/1963.Also, right after the assassination, almost like a thank you card to the conspirators, LBJ completely reversed JFK's policies for Vietnam and what he was doing with the Federal Reserve. Also, the oil depletion policy was never changed, like JFK had wanted to do.

[kenmurray]

Doug Horne was great on BOR. He now has me convinced that the Z-film was altered especially the fatal head shot frames. Great stuff on LBJ there Bob.

[Bob]

Thom, a couple of things about the autopsy. First Thom Robinson was present at the autopsy. He is the mortician that Wim has mentioned before, plus Horne interviewed Robinson as well and talks about what Robinson actually saw at the autopsy and how they differed from the autopsy photos. Here is a post by Wim about Robinson awhile back...Lastly, what you don't know is that I have an interview with Thom Robinson, wherein he states that the gaping hole in JFK's skull was probed with a tiny probe and that one of those probes from INSIDE the skull came out at the throat wound ! That's why he told me that he has always been very quiet about this, but that he has chuckled for all those years at the conspiracy buffs who claim JFK was shot in the throat from the front. He knew better since 1963. And I know better since I spoke to him. I should have known better earlier by listening to Jimmy, instead of to the JFK research community, and what they have brainwashed themselves with. I too was a victim of what I wanted to believe, and looked so self-evident. Again, Robinson was PRESENT at the autopsy. Now, Horne talks about all the problems at the autopsy. Unlike, Mr. Lifton, Horne believes that JFK had a medical procedure (altering the wounds) at Bethesda before the actual autopsy. Lifton believes that the procedure took place between Dallas and Bethesda. Bottom line, there was a wound altering procedure. Hopefully you can get hear this presentation. Just load RealPlayer as Ken says and you will be able to hear this. I can't think of anyone that would enjoy this presentation more. In terms of the witness that talked about the throat wound being an exit wound, I'm listening again and will get you that name.

[Bruce Patrick Brychek]

Dear Bob:Outstanding Post. You have been here long enough to remember the criticism that Jimmy and I endured years ago, some still here on the JFK Forum, about Jimmy's belief that JFK'S throat wound was an exit wound from his Mercury Filled Hollow Point, Custom made by Wolfman back in Chicago, Illinois, prior to Jimmy's trip to Dallas, Texas. This Specially Altered Bullet was fired from a weapon that virtually nobody heard of, and very, very little was, and is known about, even today. Remember the negative discussions about how the Remington Fireball XP - 100 kicks like a mule. I have three (3) Fireballs, all from 1962 and 1963 manufacture. I can state unequivocally that Fireballs do not have a major kick. The only modification that I would make would be to design them with 6- 8 capacity magazines.Hell, Wim even disagreed with both Jimmy and me in his first edition of Files On JFK. Note wherein Wim attacks us for speculation. Wim then correctly develops his Research, Study, Thinking, and Writing, wherein he changes his position in his second edition, Files On JFK.Bob, notice how Jimmy remained stedfast in his analysis, and subsequent factual revelations have come full circle to what Jimmy stated.Remember, Jimmy was a Master Assassin, a Highly Experienced Sniper, had done many, many head shots in Viet Nam, Laos, Cambodia, South America, North America, and other places. Charles Nicoletti chose Jimmy for many reasons that may never come out.Tremendously powerful Post, Bob. Excellent, and Thank You for all the obvious reasons.Respectfully,Bruce Patrick Brychek.

[Bob]

Bruce Patrick Brychek wrote:Dear Bob:Outstanding Post. You have been here long enough to remember the criticism that Jimmy and I endured years ago, some still here on the JFK Forum, about Jimmy's belief that JFK'S throat wound was an exit wound from his Mercury Filled Hollow Point, Custom made by Wolfman back in Chicago, Illinois, prior to Jimmy's trip to Dallas, Texas. This Specially Altered Bullet was fired from a weapon that virtually nobody heard of, and very, very little was, and is known about, even today. Remember the negative discussions about how the Remington Fireball XP - 100 kicks like a mule. I have three (3) Fireballs, all from 1962 and 1963 manufacture. I can state unequivocally that Fireballs do not have a major kick. The only modification that I would make would be to design them with 6- 8 capacity magazines.Hell, Wim even disagreed with both Jimmy and me in his first edition of Files On JFK. Note wherein Wim attacks us for speculation. Wim then correctly develops his Research, Study, Thinking, and Writing, wherein he changes his position in his second edition, Files On JFK.Bob, notice how Jimmy remained stedfast in his analysis, and subsequent factual revelations have come full circle to what Jimmy stated.Remember, Jimmy was a Master Assassin, a Highly Experienced Sniper, had done many, many head shots in Viet Nam, Laos, Cambodia, South America, North America, and other places. Charles Nicoletti chose Jimmy for many reasons that may never come out.Tremendously powerful Post, Bob. Excellent, and Thank You for all the obvious reasons.Respectfully,Bruce Patrick Brychek.My pleasure Bruce! As you say, Jimmy has always been steadfast in his analysis of the headshot, and the damage that the mercury round could incur on someone.

[Bob]

Okay Thom. Check this out. Horne believes there have been three different versions of the autopsy report. The first autopsy report was discussed in late January 1964, from a formerly top secret transcript, when the Warren Commission executive session was held. J. Lee Rankin, who was the chief counsel for the Warren Commission, led the session. Rankin said there were many questions about the wounds to JFK, including a bullet fragment that came OUT of the throat and was derived from the head shot, based on the context of that autopsy report. That report is now missing. Horne thinks a 3rd version is now in the archives.One last thing, it is clear from the presentation by Horne, that he has an immense amount of respect for David Lifton.

[ThomZajac]

Bob,I'm going to have to read thing over again, but I must say that I think you are missing the point on the throat wound and reports of it being an exit wound.From the beginning the planners knew there could be no evidence of a shot from the front. And so the throat would HAD to be a wound of exit. The planners ORIGINALLY were going to explain that it was caused by a fragment from the head shot, but the Zapruder film and countless witnesses show that JFK was hit in the throat well before that (I know you think JFK was reacting instead to a back wound, but even the planners that this was untenable). The original back wound, which I think was not inflicted at Dealey Plaza, was added to implicate Oswald, and to provide a wound from which the magic bullet could fall, but the planners had to change that plan and so it then became necessary to move that back wound up so that it could then explain the exit wound in the throat.Anyone who cites evidence from Bethesda or and beyond of the throat wound being one of exit also, in my opinion, is missing the boat. THE BODY WAS ALTERED PRIOR TO AUTOPSY. BY THE PLANNERS. TO ELIMINATE ALL EVIDENCE OF A SHOT OR SHOTS FROM IN FRONT.Bob, who beyond any doubt is the best witness regarding the throat wound. Wouldn't it be Dr. Perry? Seems to me there was no doubt in his mind as to the nature of the wound. And he was pressured big time to change his opinion. Listen, for all I know james Files could be telling the truth about having fired the fatal head shot, but that wouldn't mean he was right about the throat wound. Would he have know about ALL the other shooters that day? I'm going to read this stuff again, but it seems the 'best evidence' for the throat wound being one of exit comes from Thom Robinson- BUT HE DIDN'T SEE THE BODY UNTIL AFTER THE PLANNERS HAD ALTERED IT. When Dr Perry had looked at the wound, the body was still 'pristine.'Finally, I'm curious as to what Horne's conclusion is on this matter. Seems to me he agress with Dr. Perry. Am I wrong on that?With much admiriation but scratching my head on this one,Thom

[Bob]

Thom, listen to Horne's presentation, then exhale , and then give me your response. Horne talks about Robinson quite a bit and will hopefully clear up any doubt you have about him. Rankin says that the WC was concerned that the throat wound came from the HEAD shot...not the back wound.Also, check out this review by Bill Kelly...Bill Kelly's Preview - 11/29/09Doug Horne’s Inside the Assassination Records Review Board (IARRB) is the most important book to be published on the assassination of President Kennedy in decades, not only because it changes the way we look at that murder, but in showing how the remaining issues can be resolved by determining the truth. All the debates end here, and the arguments are replaced with questions that were posed but not answered when the Assassination Records Review Board was alive and ostensibly overseeing the declassification and release of the government's JFK assassination records. Many of the questions weren't even asked because the ARRB failed to fully use its power to subpoena witnesses and take the sworn testimony of witness.As Horne, the chief analyst for military records explains, "While the Review Board had the power to subpoena witnesses and grant immunity, the subpoena power was used sparingly (with a limited number of medical and CIA witnesses), and the immunity power was never exercised. The reason: none of the Board Members were convinced there was any conspiracy or coverup, and therefore were only interested in clarifying the record in a few areas. At least the staff of the ARRB was permitted to conduct unsworn witness interviews without seeking permission from the Board Members. Sadly, senior staff members often elected not to even tape record witness interviews, which make the staff's written interview reports incredibly important as historical tools."To its credit, the ARRB did manage to release millions of pages of documents, identified important records that are missing and others that have been destroyed, and they’ve called attention to those records that they deemed necessary to withhold until 2017, when the last classified secret JFK assassination record is scheduled to be released. Now however, over a decade after the ARRB shut down, and years before the last record is released, we have a real good idea of what happened in Dallas, and in DC in the aftermath of the President’s murder. And with Doug Horne’s extremely detailed analysis of the military records, his conclusions are hard to avoid. Supporting the general consensus that there was a conspiracy behind what happened at Dealey Plaza, Horne takes it a step further, and calls it straight and unambiguous – it was a coup d’etat, with those responsible for the murder taking over the government and changing policy. And lying all the way, but hey, after multiple homicides, the lying part is easy. Building on the recent evaluations of the assassination that are in line with the Cold War history, crediting David Talbot’s “Brothers,” Jeff Morley’s “Our Man In Mexico” and Jim Douglas’ “JFK & the Unspeakable,” Horne surrounds JFK's story with the proper social frame work, and details how the evidence of a Dealey Plaza coup fits like a glove with the overall historical record. Not only concluding there was a conspiracy, through his own personal journey, Horne takes the reader on a tour of the intestines of the coup and cover-up, from Dealey Plaza and Parkland Hospital, aboard AF1, from Andrews to Bethesda, and a few back alleys we haven't been down before. Along the way he consistently refers to important records and corresponding eye witness accounts, pointing out the contradictions and discrepancies, and sometimes resolving them. Thank God for small victories, and belittling the idea that "We'll never know." Now we can know. While matching the volume of the work of his nemesis Vincent Bugliosi (at 2,000 plus pages), Horne’s IARRB basically dismisses Bugliosi’s only suspect, mentioning Lee Harvey Oswald only a few times throughout the five volumes, and each time only referring to him as the patsy who was framed for the crime. Rather than follow Ozzie the rabbit, Horne sticks close to the body, what one of his mentors, David Lifton refers to as the "best evidence." A non-fictional forensic documentary "CSI Dealey Plaza," based on Horne’s book, will certainly make a most definitive and fascinating rebuttal to Bugliosi’s upcoming and lame "Distorting History" HBO series with Tom Hanks, but who will have the courage to make "Inside JFK's Forensic Autopsy and Coup?" It isn't pretty, and its hard to say which is more ugly - the gore of the brain and guts or the betrayal of the Constitution by those behind the coup. Although Horne’s doesn’t know who shot John F. Kennedy in the back and in the head, he’s quite confident that the shot that killed the President entered the right front temple and blew out the back of his skull. This shot blew apart half the brain and created the Harper fragment and the wounds described by the Dallas doctors before the head wound was surgically altered, removing bullet fragments and enlarging the entrance to appear as an exit, before the official autopsy began. It must have been earlier in the day, after Oswald was captured but before Air Force One landed at Andrews, when it was strategically decided not to follow the original Castro Commie cover-story, and go with the lone-nut scenario, a specific decision that precluded an assassin from the front and required the altering of wounds at Bethesda and all other evidence of a second gunman, including the Z-film. It is from this attempt to disavow the existence of a shooter from the front, that the other lies had to be created, including the Lone-Nut lie to replace the Cuban Commie Rat cover-story that was supposed to have led to an invasion of Cuba, and the Z-film alteration that failed to uphold the first lie. Horne nicely weaves the details of the crime and the cover-up with the overall historical situation, as well as his personal quest for the truth, one that most people can identify with, and follow, and reluctantly, but eventually coming to agree with his acute and well reasoned analysis, and in the end, his terrifying conclusions. Volume IV, the first book to be released, contains two chapters - 13, "What Really Happened at the Bethesda Morgue (And in Dealey Plaza?)" and the nearly 200 page Chapter 14, "The Zapruder Film Mystery," which is probably the most controversial, but also contains the convincer. Besides offering documentary proof and corresponding witness testimony to support this scenario, Horne also demonstrates conclusively that the Zapruder film was tampered with, constituting clear obstruction of justice for tampering with evidence. Unlike previous attempts to brand the Z-film a fake by unexplained anomalies, Horne takes a different approach, and utilizing the recollections of honorable and reputable CIA officials whose reputations cannot be impeached, he demonstrates how the chain of possession was lost and the film altered. While he doesn't know exactly who did it, Horne tells you when and where it was done (KODAK’s Hawkeye Works, Rochester, New York) and how and why they did it.Because the chain-of-evidence is broken and the provenance of the body and the Zapruder film are no longer certain, as Douglas Horne so conclusively demonstrates, a new legal mandate kicks in, and the rules of the game change. Just as Oliver Stone’s “JFK” forced Congress to pass the JFK Act, Doug Horne’s book "Inside the Assassination Records Review Board" should embarrass Congress into holding JFK Act Oversight Hearings, force the convening of a Special Federal Grand Jury to investigate crimes related to the assassination, and require a new and proper forensic autopsy of the victim and our national security. No fewer words could accomplish as much. [ William E. Kelly, Jr. is co-founder of the Committee for an Open Archvies (COA) and COPA – the Coalition on Political Assassinations. He can be reached at bkjfk3@yahoo.com or at http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/ ]

[kenmurray]

I'm for sure want to get Doug Horne's book. It might take me 6 months to read it all.

[Bob]

kenmurray wrote:I'm for sure want to get Doug Horne's book. It might take me 6 months to read it all. Yes...like Bugliosi's book, this one will be over 2,000 pages. However, unlike Vince, Doug has a book that is fresh, well researched and will be VERY worthwhile to read. Unlike the doorstop that Bullshitosi wrote.