Woodward, Graham and Hughe's the 3 stooges.

[SeamusCoogan]

Phil Dragoo wrote:Seamus, you raise a good point: can one appreciate The Assassinations edited by Jim DiEugenio and Lisa Pease without preparation.How might a fish learn the concept of wet.I was sitting in high school when the intercom announced the president has been shot; the president has died; school is closed and the buses are at the door. Jack Ruby lunges from the reporters to shoot the assassin.Twelve years later Geraldo shows Zapruder as Groden and Gregory watch. The projector goes clickety click; Kennedy's head explodes and with it the idea that you can trust your government.Many books later, The Assassinations seems a summation, a plateau. But the trek up began with Mark Lane, and Jim Garrison, and Sylvia Meagher, and Harold Weisberg, and Robert Groden, and yes David Lifton, and Noel Twyman, and Jim Marrs, and Anthony Summers, and Jim Fetzer.Add seasoning to suit.Next in chronology comes Malcolm Little, Malcolm X, who called out Elijah for corruption and became a target of Rabid Louie who survives to this day, who lauded Gaddafi and Obama, who despite hot rhetoric is bedrock power elite. Do the math. The revolutionaries are dead; the reactionaries are alive.King, the target of Hoover and Holloman. Ray the pawn of Raul. For that, Pepper's Orders to Kill is best.Robert dead in 68; oh, what a year. The whole world was watching. And no one comments that Bill Ayers who broke windows October 8-11, 1969, who bombed like a coward, who ghosted Obama's book, PRAISED Sirhan for killing Robert--hey, Bill, you just identified yourself as--not a revolutionary--a reactionary, part of the power elite, the security state, the assassins.For Robert, Turner & Christian, Klaber & Melanson, Shane O'Sullivan.The greatest takeaway is that no president or congressman or senator has dared place the blame on CIA and the government for all four.And, that CIA has used assets (authors putting the ass in asset) such as Posner, Bugliosi, et al.For me, the world does not funnel down to only these four. Patton said the victory over Hitler was meaningless when Stalin stood astride Eastern Europe. Before he could question the 25,000 Allied Prisoners of War kept as Stalin's slave labor (and run for Senate and the presidency against Eisenhower) he was killed in a suspicious crash and hospital stay.I spent two years studying the suspicious death of billionaire Edmond Safra at the hands of former Army Ranger/Green Beret Ted Maher. Money and power transcend borders and ideology.The quest for the truth is eternal.I wouldnt touch O'Sullivan with a barge poll to be honest Phil.

[Bob]

SeamusCoogan wrote:Phil Dragoo wrote:Seamus, you raise a good point: can one appreciate The Assassinations edited by Jim DiEugenio and Lisa Pease without preparation.How might a fish learn the concept of wet.I was sitting in high school when the intercom announced the president has been shot; the president has died; school is closed and the buses are at the door. Jack Ruby lunges from the reporters to shoot the assassin.Twelve years later Geraldo shows Zapruder as Groden and Gregory watch. The projector goes clickety click; Kennedy's head explodes and with it the idea that you can trust your government.Many books later, The Assassinations seems a summation, a plateau. But the trek up began with Mark Lane, and Jim Garrison, and Sylvia Meagher, and Harold Weisberg, and Robert Groden, and yes David Lifton, and Noel Twyman, and Jim Marrs, and Anthony Summers, and Jim Fetzer.Add seasoning to suit.Next in chronology comes Malcolm Little, Malcolm X, who called out Elijah for corruption and became a target of Rabid Louie who survives to this day, who lauded Gaddafi and Obama, who despite hot rhetoric is bedrock power elite. Do the math. The revolutionaries are dead; the reactionaries are alive.King, the target of Hoover and Holloman. Ray the pawn of Raul. For that, Pepper's Orders to Kill is best.Robert dead in 68; oh, what a year. The whole world was watching. And no one comments that Bill Ayers who broke windows October 8-11, 1969, who bombed like a coward, who ghosted Obama's book, PRAISED Sirhan for killing Robert--hey, Bill, you just identified yourself as--not a revolutionary--a reactionary, part of the power elite, the security state, the assassins.For Robert, Turner & Christian, Klaber & Melanson, Shane O'Sullivan.The greatest takeaway is that no president or congressman or senator has dared place the blame on CIA and the government for all four.And, that CIA has used assets (authors putting the ass in asset) such as Posner, Bugliosi, et al.For me, the world does not funnel down to only these four. Patton said the victory over Hitler was meaningless when Stalin stood astride Eastern Europe. Before he could question the 25,000 Allied Prisoners of War kept as Stalin's slave labor (and run for Senate and the presidency against Eisenhower) he was killed in a suspicious crash and hospital stay.I spent two years studying the suspicious death of billionaire Edmond Safra at the hands of former Army Ranger/Green Beret Ted Maher. Money and power transcend borders and ideology.The quest for the truth is eternal.I wouldnt touch O'Sullivan with a barge poll to be honest Phil.I think O'Sullivan has realized his errors, and Jim D recognized that in one of his more recent reviews. I still think O'Sullivan's overall synopsis was correct regarding the RFK assassination. The CIA was complicit in the murder, and I DO believe that David Morales was there. In addition, Michael Calder has done some fascinating work as well regarding this, and his theory based on a sworn affidavit by a witness to the RFK assassination makes a lot of sense based on what happened with Lee Harvey Oswald. Calder believes there were two people that looked exactly alike in the kitchen pantry the night RFK was shot. One was Sirhan, and the other was the man who actually shot RFK from behind with the help of Thane Cesar, while Sirhan was shooting from in front of the Senator. When one thinks of LHO and the people that looked like him like Billy Lovelady, who also worked at the TSBD, plus the other work done by Jack White regarding the many faces of LHO and the fine book by John Armstrong (Harvey and Lee), one sees a pattern.

[SeamusCoogan]

Bob wrote:SeamusCoogan wrote:Phil Dragoo wrote:Seamus, you raise a good point: can one appreciate The Assassinations edited by Jim DiEugenio and Lisa Pease without preparation.How might a fish learn the concept of wet.I was sitting in high school when the intercom announced the president has been shot; the president has died; school is closed and the buses are at the door. Jack Ruby lunges from the reporters to shoot the assassin.Twelve years later Geraldo shows Zapruder as Groden and Gregory watch. The projector goes clickety click; Kennedy's head explodes and with it the idea that you can trust your government.Many books later, The Assassinations seems a summation, a plateau. But the trek up began with Mark Lane, and Jim Garrison, and Sylvia Meagher, and Harold Weisberg, and Robert Groden, and yes David Lifton, and Noel Twyman, and Jim Marrs, and Anthony Summers, and Jim Fetzer.Add seasoning to suit.Next in chronology comes Malcolm Little, Malcolm X, who called out Elijah for corruption and became a target of Rabid Louie who survives to this day, who lauded Gaddafi and Obama, who despite hot rhetoric is bedrock power elite. Do the math. The revolutionaries are dead; the reactionaries are alive.King, the target of Hoover and Holloman. Ray the pawn of Raul. For that, Pepper's Orders to Kill is best.Robert dead in 68; oh, what a year. The whole world was watching. And no one comments that Bill Ayers who broke windows October 8-11, 1969, who bombed like a coward, who ghosted Obama's book, PRAISED Sirhan for killing Robert--hey, Bill, you just identified yourself as--not a revolutionary--a reactionary, part of the power elite, the security state, the assassins.For Robert, Turner & Christian, Klaber & Melanson, Shane O'Sullivan.The greatest takeaway is that no president or congressman or senator has dared place the blame on CIA and the government for all four.And, that CIA has used assets (authors putting the ass in asset) such as Posner, Bugliosi, et al.For me, the world does not funnel down to only these four. Patton said the victory over Hitler was meaningless when Stalin stood astride Eastern Europe. Before he could question the 25,000 Allied Prisoners of War kept as Stalin's slave labor (and run for Senate and the presidency against Eisenhower) he was killed in a suspicious crash and hospital stay.I spent two years studying the suspicious death of billionaire Edmond Safra at the hands of former Army Ranger/Green Beret Ted Maher. Money and power transcend borders and ideology.The quest for the truth is eternal.I wouldnt touch O'Sullivan with a barge poll to be honest Phil.I think O'Sullivan has realized his errors, and Jim D recognized that in one of his more recent reviews. I still think O'Sullivan's overall synopsis was correct regarding the RFK assassination. The CIA was complicit in the murder, and I DO believe that David Morales was there. In addition, Michael Calder has done some fascinating work as well regarding this, and his theory based on a sworn affidavit by a witness to the RFK assassination makes a lot of sense based on what happened with Lee Harvey Oswald. Calder believes there were two people that looked exactly alike in the kitchen pantry the night RFK was shot. One was Sirhan, and the other was the man who actually shot RFK from behind with the help of Thane Cesar, while Sirhan was shooting from in front of the Senator. When one thinks of LHO and the people that looked like him like Billy Lovelady, who also worked at the TSBD, plus the other work done by Jack White regarding the many faces of LHO and the fine book by John Armstrong (Harvey and Lee), one sees a pattern.Oh yeah for sure Bob bang on with you there mate.

[SeamusCoogan]

Bruce Patrick Brychek wrote:Dear Mr. Phil Dragoo:Phil - When a batter hits a Grand Slam, he doesn't really need to be TOLD that he hit a Grand Slam. But I join a very talented writer whom I admired, read, and studied long before he joined the JFK Forum, Mr. Michael Calder, in humbly telling you that I sincerely, truly enjoyed your above referenced Post, and of course several others.I was in the 8th grade at Saint Ailbe Grade School, Chicago, Illinois, when James Earl Sutton killed JKF. I think that we are close in age.Phil, beyond your obvious knack and flair for writing, you do so much more. You imbue for me a true recollection through the prism of the past, an almost Simon and Garfunkel type of nostalgia, philosophy, and truth.Those who lived through this time, who walked the walk, I think can truly savor the flavor of your writings.Joe "Dealey Joe" Hall, I think you understand me, at least a little. Did I state this well enough ?Comments ?Respectfully,Bruce Patrick Brychek.Now Bruce the only reason you replied here was because you thought that Phil had some how in some way taught me something of a lesson.Let me point out to you directly that my question for Phil was actually written on behalf of those people new to the assassination of which I am not. People like you and Michael Calder who would struggle greatly with The Assassinations to be precise. Im fine by the way and I dont like Phils tone in his reply nor do I like many of his sources. Nor do I like what I feel was his condescending tone.

[Bob]

Easy my friend...I know it's Friday night, but let's just take a deep breath. That goes for everyone as well. Seamus, I have room for everyone that you mentioned. Obviously CTKA is an outstanding site and Jim D and Lisa do great work, as do you. But Bruce and Phil have some excellent insight as well. As I've said many times, there is room on the CT team for debate. But let's ALL be respectful of other people's opinions. Now, on the other hand, when you are talking about Dave Perry and Larry Dunkel...

[SeamusCoogan]

Phil Dragoo wrote:Seamus, you raise a good point: can one appreciate The Assassinations edited by Jim DiEugenio and Lisa Pease without preparation.How might a fish learn the concept of wet.I was sitting in high school when the intercom announced the president has been shot; the president has died; school is closed and the buses are at the door. Jack Ruby lunges from the reporters to shoot the assassin.Twelve years later Geraldo shows Zapruder as Groden and Gregory watch. The projector goes clickety click; Kennedy's head explodes and with it the idea that you can trust your government.Many books later, The Assassinations seems a summation, a plateau. But the trek up began with Mark Lane, and Jim Garrison, and Sylvia Meagher, and Harold Weisberg, and Robert Groden, and yes David Lifton, and Noel Twyman, and Jim Marrs, and Anthony Summers, and Jim Fetzer.Add seasoning to suit.Next in chronology comes Malcolm Little, Malcolm X, who called out Elijah for corruption and became a target of Rabid Louie who survives to this day, who lauded Gaddafi and Obama, who despite hot rhetoric is bedrock power elite. Do the math. The revolutionaries are dead; the reactionaries are alive.King, the target of Hoover and Holloman. Ray the pawn of Raul. For that, Pepper's Orders to Kill is best.Robert dead in 68; oh, what a year. The whole world was watching. And no one comments that Bill Ayers who broke windows October 8-11, 1969, who bombed like a coward, who ghosted Obama's book, PRAISED Sirhan for killing Robert--hey, Bill, you just identified yourself as--not a revolutionary--a reactionary, part of the power elite, the security state, the assassins.For Robert, Turner & Christian, Klaber & Melanson, Shane O'Sullivan.The greatest takeaway is that no president or congressman or senator has dared place the blame on CIA and the government for all four.And, that CIA has used assets (authors putting the ass in asset) such as Posner, Bugliosi, et al.For me, the world does not funnel down to only these four. Patton said the victory over Hitler was meaningless when Stalin stood astride Eastern Europe. Before he could question the 25,000 Allied Prisoners of War kept as Stalin's slave labor (and run for Senate and the presidency against Eisenhower) he was killed in a suspicious crash and hospital stay.I spent two years studying the suspicious death of billionaire Edmond Safra at the hands of former Army Ranger/Green Beret Ted Maher. Money and power transcend borders and ideology.The quest for the truth is eternal.OKAY ALL I DID WAS ASK PHIL HIS OPINION AND PHIL CHUCKS IN A COMMENT IN WHICH BRYCHEK AND CALDER GET WET ABOUT (I DOUBT EITHER HAVE ACTUALLY READ WHAT I HAVE POSTED ON WATERGATE IT TAKES A LITTLE TO MUCH CONCENTRATION LOL) SO LETS CLEAR SOME STUFF UP.IN NO WAY WAS MY STATEMENT ABOUT JIM AND LISA'S BOOK BEING TOUGH TO READ ABOUT MYSELF. IT WAS INTENDED FOR NEWBS ON THE SCENE AND JIM AND LISA HAVE COMMENTED TO ME THATS ITS ADVANCED NATURE NEEDS A LITTLE MORE READING BY OTHERS BEFORE DELVING IN.I NEVER EVER HAVE OR SAID I STRUGGLED READING IT.AS FOR PHILS FISH ANALOGY WHICH STRUCK ME AS CONDESCENDING AND SNIDE I CAN SAFELY SAY ITS NOT A FISH IN WATER FOR THE LESS KNOWLEDGABLE ITS A FISH ON A BBQ. I KNOW OF 3 PEOPLE WHO HAVE TRIED TO READ IT AND FELT OUT OF DEPTH WITH THE BOOK IS THAT COINCIDENCE? PHIL. LET ME REITERATE THAT NOT ONE OF THOSE THREE PEOPLE WERE ME.FURTHERMORE PHIL ARE YOU TRYING TO INSINUATE THAT SHANE SULLIVAN, LIFTON, FETZER, TWYMAN INFLUENCED AND INSPIRED THE ASSASSINATIONS? IM AFRAID NOT, IF THATS WHAT YOUR GOING FOR..WHY NOT MENTION VINCE SALANDRIA? GAETON FONZI, DAN HARDAWAY, EDWIN LOPEZ. THESE GUYS KICK THE ABOVES ASSES ALL OVER TOWN AND GENUINELY INSPIRED THE ASSASSINATIONS.PHIL TRUST ME I'VE DONE THE MATH. NUMEROUS TIMES. I ALSO PICKED UP AN ORIGINAL COPY OF ALEX HEALEYS AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF MALCOM X.NOW IM NOT A MERE FISH, IM A SHARK PHIL A VERY OLD MEAN BIG AND GRUMPY ONE ON THIS BEAT AND IM CIRCLING.YOU DONT WANT ME TO BITE.

[Bob]

Seamus, I have seen quite a few posts by Phil where he goes out of his way to praise Jim D. That's why I think you may be interpreting his post incorrectly. JMHO though.

[SeamusCoogan]

Bob wrote:Easy my friend...I know it's Friday night, but let's just take a deep breath. That goes for everyone as well. Seamus, I have room for everyone that you mentioned. Obviously CTKA is an outstanding site and Jim D and Lisa do great work, as do you. But Bruce and Phil have some excellent insight as well. As I've said many times, there is room on the CT team for debate. But let's ALL be respectful of other people's opinions. Now, on the other hand, when you are talking about Dave Perry and Larry Dunkel... Lol no Bob, its Phils awkward reply to a simple question to myself that has me a little edgy. Im sure he didnt mean to annoy me but lets face it Calder and Brycheck dont generally comment on my posts. Its of no concern to me if they do or don't I mean if they learn something then good. But I've been around the blogosphere long enough to get suspicious of such acts. Now, I'm sorry but when people whom I have criticised before and whom usually stare clear of my posts suddenly chime in on a post that is rather unclear, and appears to be talking down to the very person who posted the original question I'm sorry for not taking it all very kindly. I think that they thought Phil was trying to give me some sort of serve. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't I dont think Phil was but, well safety first. Ill gladly shoot first and ask questions later. I dont mind what Phil wrote per se chief and his opinions are okay and yeah Bob Phil has done some good stuff and I do like the man.Furthermore this is not about me defending Jims honour I know Phil digs him. I need to make that clear.I just needed to set the record straight on where I was coming from. With my original question and how Phil needlessly turned it into a failed point scoring excercise which drew in some strays.

[Bob]

All is good. But even though Bruce and Michael didn't address you directly in this thread, your topic perked their interest. Trust me, they both are very observant.

[Phil Dragoo]

How can one see so many auras and penumbras in my above posts.I am insulting no one and patronizing no one.All here are of good heart and sharp wit; do not take offense where none was meant.Further this deponent sayeth not.