JFK RFK MLK Assassination Forum

...to an ignorant Aussie?

It seems from what I've read while finding out about Kennedy that the political system there is different from the way it is here, and I can't quite figure out how it works.

Here in Oz there are two major parties, same as in America - ours are Liberal and Labor: yours are Republican and Democrat. I think I've got that right so far. But from there on, it seems completely different. Here each party has a leader, elected by the party members, and once every four years all us little aussies troop down to our local school on a Saturday morning and vote for our favourite local member, and therefore for his party (voting's compulsory here, but there's usually a sausage sizzle going on in the school grounds so you can feast on a hot tasty snag in white bread with tomato sauce after the great stress of schlepping down there to put your mark on the ballot paper).

Then whichever party gets the most votes, its leader becomes (or stays, if there's no change of Government) Prime Minister.

Now it seems from what I've read that in America you don't vote for a party: you vote for a bloke. He's a member of a party, but you're voting for the bloke, not the party.

Is that how it goes? And what's with the months (years, it sometimes seems) of electioneering?

Not to mention the primaries and secondaries and colleges and stuff.

I don't understand that at all.

Here we have the PM - head of Government, and the Governor-General - head of State (who's a woman at the moment: how very progressive of us). Not sure what the GG actually does, apart from living in a fuck-off big house in Canberra and driving around in a fuck-off big car; I think it signs things, chats occasionally to the Queen and does charity gigs. Although there was one brief shining glorious moment back in the 70s where the GG sacked the PM. Such a scandal!

I gather that in America the President is both Head of Government and Head of State; is that right?

What happens if the President needs a damn good sacking and there's no head of State to do it? Does he sack himself? What happens if he goes doolally and wants to press The Button just to see what happens?

Our PM spends most of his time in Parliament, arguing with and slagging off the opposition, but your pres seems to hang out full-time in the White House.

Does he ever go into Parliament (Congress I guess it is over there) and make speeches and take part in debates and stuff?

Once he's been elected, does he still have anything to do with his party, or does he just do his own thing in the White House?

(My sister married a bloke called White, and on the front their house in Coffs Harbour there's a little plaque saying "The White House" )

Thanks for the education on Australian politics Katisha.
Yes, there are basically two parties in the U.S., Democratic and Republican. There are sometimes third parties (Independent, Green etc.) that try to run as well, like with Ron Paul in 2008 or like Ralph Nader does almost every Presidential election now. Most people either vote Democratic or Republican, and their votes are for a PERSON, but usually go with their party allegiance. Sometimes. The 2008 Presidential election saw a few Republicans vote for Obama and almost all Independent voters casting their votes for Obama. What I have found in American politics is that everything is controlled by the lobbyists. Follow the money. Both parties. It also looks like the Presidents are beholden to other power brokers that have the REAL power in the world...the Bilderbergers. I think the leaders of Australia, Great Britain, Germany, the Netherlands etc. all fall under the same situation. Take a look at the who's who list that went to the Bilderbergers meeting in 2009. The list of dignitaries from all countries is amazing.Dutch Queen BeatrixQueen Sofia of SpainPrince Constantijn (Belgian Prince)Prince Philippe Etienne Ntavinion, BelgiumÉtienne, Viscount Davignon, Belgium (former vice-president of the European Commission)Josef Ackermann (Swiss banker and CEO of Deutsche Bank)Keith B. Alexander, United States (Lieutenant General, U.S. Army, Director of the National Security Agency)Roger Altman, United States (investment banker, former U.S. Deputy Treasury Secretary under Bill Clinton)Georgios A. Arapoglou, Greece (Governor of National Bank of Greece)Ali Babaca , Turkey (Deputy Prime Minister responsible for economy)Francisco Pinto Balsemão, Portugal (former Prime Minister of Portugal)Nicholas Bavarez, France (economist and historian)Franco Bernabè, Italy (Telecom Italia)Xavier Bertrand, France (French politician connected to Nicolas Sarkozy)Carl Bildt, Sweden (former Prime Minister of Sweden)January Bgiorklount, Norway (?)Christoph Blocher, Switzerland (industrialist, Vice President of the Swiss People’s Party)Alexander Bompar, France (?) Ana Patricia Botin, Spain, (President of Banco Banesto)Henri de Castries, France (President of AXA, the French global insurance companies group) Juan Luis Cebrián, Spain (journalist for Grupo PRISA; his father was a senior journalist in the fascist Franco regime)W. Edmund Clark, Canada (CEO TD Bank Financial Group)Kenneth Clarke, Great Britain (MP, Shadow Business Secretary)Luc Cohen, Belgium (?)George David, United States (Chairman and former CEO of United Technologies Corporation, board member of Citigroup) Richard Dearlove, Great Britain (former head of the British Secret Intelligence Service) Mario Draghi, Italy (economist, governor of the Bank of Italy)Eldrup Anders, Denmark (CEO Dong Energy)John Elkann, Italy (Italian industrialist, grandson of the late Gianni Agnelli, and heir to the automaker Fiat)Thomas Enders, Germany (CEO Airbus)Jose Entrekanales, Spain (?)Isintro phenomena casket, Spain (?) Niall Ferguson, United States (Professor of History at Harvard University and William Ziegler Professor at Harvard Business School)Timothy Geithner, United States (Secretary of the Treasury)Ntermot convergence, Ireland (AIV Group) (?) Donald Graham, United States (CEO and chairman of the board of The Washington Post Company)Victor Chalmperstant, Netherlands (Leiden University)Ernst Hirsch Ballin, Netherlands (Dutch politician, minister of Justice in the fourth Balkenende cabinet, member of the Christian Democratic Appeal)Richard Holbrooke, United States (Obama’s special envoy for Afghanistan and Pakistan)Jaap De Hoop Scheffer, Netherlands (Dutch politician and the current NATO Secretary General)James Jones, United States (National Security Advisor to the White House)Vernon Jordan, United States (lawyer, close adviser to President Bill Clinton)Robert Keigkan, United States (? - possibly Robert Kagan, neocon historian)Girki Katainen, Finland (?)John Kerr (aka Baron Kerr of Kinlochard), Britain (Deputy Chairman of Royal Dutch Shell and an independent member of the House of Lords)Mustafa Vehbi Koç, Turkey (President of industrial conglomerate Koç Holding)Roland GT, Germany (?) Sami Cohen, Turkey (Journalist) (?)Henry Kissinger, United StatesMarie Jose Kravis, United States (Hudson Institute)Neelie Kroes, Netherlands (European Commissioner for Competition)Odysseas Kyriakopoulos, Greece (Group S & B) (?)Manuela Ferreira Leite, Portugal (Portuguese economist and politician)Bernardino Leon Gross, Spain (Secretary General of the Presidency)Jessica Matthews, United States (President of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace) Philippe Maystadt (President of the European Investment Bank)Frank McKenna, Canada (Deputy Chairman of the Toronto-Dominion Bank)John Micklethwait, Great Britain (Editor-in-chief of The Economist)Thierry de Montbrial, France (founded the Department of Economics of the École Polytechnique and heads the Institut français des relations internationales)Mario Monti, Italy (Italian economist and politician, President of the Bocconi University of Milan)Miguel Angel Moratinos, Spain (Minister of Foreign Affairs)Craig Mundie, United States (chief research and strategy officer at Microsoft)Egil Myklebust, Norway (Chairman of the board of SAS Group, Scandinavian Airlines System)Mathias Nass, Germany (Editor of the newspaper Die Zeit)Denis Olivennes, France (director general of Nouvel Observateur)Frederic Oudea, France (CEO of Société Générale bank)Cem Özdemir, Germany (co-leader of the Green Party and Member of the European Parliament)Tommaso Padoa-Schioppa, Italy (Italian banker, economist, and former Minister of Economy and Finance)Dimitrios Th.Papalexopoulo, Greece (Managing Director of Titan Cement Company SA) Richard Perle, United States (American Enterprise Institute)David Petraeus, United States (Commander, U.S. Central Command)Manuel Pinho, Portugal (Minister of Economy and Innovation)J. Robert S. Prichard, Canada (CEO of Torstar Corporation and president emeritus of the University of Toronto)Romano Prodi, Italy (former Italian Prime Minister and former President of the European Commission)Heather M. Reisman, Canada (co-founder of Indigo Books & Music Inc.).Eivint Reitan, Norway (economist, corporate officer and politician for the Centre Party)Michael Rintzier, Czech Republic (?)David Rockefeller, United StatesDennis Ross, United States (special adviser for the Persian Gulf and Southwest Asia to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton)Barnett R. Rubin, United States (Director of Studies and Senior Fellow, Center for International Cooperation)Alberto Rouith-Gkalarthon, Spain (?) Susan Sampantzi Ntintzer, Turkey (?) Guler Sabanci, President of Sabanci Holdings (?)Indira Samarasekera, Canada (President of University of Alberta, Board of Directors Scotiabank)Rountol Solten, Austria (?) Jürgen E. Schrempp, Germany (CEO DaimlerChrysler)Pedro Solbes Mira, Spain (economist, Socialist, Second Vice President and Minister of Economy and Finance)Sampatzi Saraz, Turkey (banker) (?) possibly Süreyya Serdengeçti (former Governor of the Central Bank of Turkey) http://arsiv.zaman.com.tr/2002/05/29/ek ... .htmSanata Seketa, Canada (University of Canada) (?) Lawrence Summers, United States (economist, Director of the White House’s National Economic Council)Peter Sutherland, Ireland (Chairman, BP and Chairman of Goldman Sachs International) Martin Taylor, United Kingdom (former chief executive of Barclays Bank, currently Chairman of Syngenta AG)Peter Thiel, United States (Clarium Capital Management LCC, PayPal co-founder, Board of Directors, Facebook) Agan Ourgkout, Turkey (?) Matti Taneli Vanhanen, Finland, (Prime Minister)Daniel L. Vasella, Switzerland (Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer at Novartis AG)Jeroen van der Veer, Netherlands (CEO of Royal Dutch Shell)Guy Verhofstadt, Belgium (former Prime Minister)Paul Volcker, U.S. (former Federal Reserve director, Chair of Obama’s Economic Recovery Advisory Board) Jacob Wallenberg, Sweden (chairman of Investor AB and former chairman of Skandinaviska Enskilda Banken)Marcus Wallenberg, Sweden (CEO of Investor AB, former chairman of Skandinaviska Enskilda Banken)Nout Wellink, Netherlands (Chairman of De Nederlandsche Bank, Board of Directors, the Bank of International Settlements)Hans Wijers, Netherlands (CEO of the multinational corporation AkzoNobel)Martin Wolf, Great Britain (associate editor and chief economics commentator at the Financial Times)James Wolfensohn, United States (former president of the World Bank)Paul Wolfowitz, United States (for U.S. Deputy Secretary of Defense, President of the World Bank, currently AEI scholar)Fareed Zakaria, United States (journalist, author, and CNN host)Robert Zoellick, United States (former managing director of Goldman Sachs, President the World Bank)Dora Bakoyannis, Greece (Minister of Foreign Affairs)Anna Diamantopoulou, Greece (Member of Parliament for the Panhellenic Socialist Movement)Yannis Papathanasiou, Greece (Minister of Finance)George Alogoskoufis, Greece (former Minister)George A. David, Greece (businessman, president of Coca-Cola) Look at that list. Look at all the financial heads (including Geithner and Larry Summers), including those with a background with the Federal Reserve (Paul Volcker). You also have General David Petraeus, who is Commander, U.S. Central Command, and is leading the war efforts for the U.S. in both Afghanistan and Iraq. You have Henry Kissinger. You have Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle, who helped lead the effort into invading Iraq and trying to tie Iraq to 9/11. Of course you have David Rockefeller. These people are responsible for the economic turbulence in the world. These people are responsible for all the trumped up wars in the world. These people make sure that the MSM keeps a secret of their existance, and that the MSM does not rock the boat in terms of REAL journalism. These people set the agenda for our "leaders" that are really beholden to them.The Bilderbergers have been meeting annually since 1954. Some leaders like JFK have pushed the envelope with the Bilderbergers and tried policies that were against their agenda. That led to 11/22/1963.

Thanks Bob, that's cleared up a couple of things I wondered about.But, despite my flippancy (and maybe TMI about Australian politics ) in the original post, I really would like to know more about how it works over there, if anyone has a few minutes to explain it to me.- I understand that the VP takes over if the president dies/becomes too incapacitated to preside, but is there some other power who can step in in an emergency; just say both the President and the VP died in a plane crash or whatever. Who would then have responsibility for running the country/deciding how the country should be run?- Is there a leader of the opposition and a shadow cabinet of opposition members? Is there, indeed, an opposition party?- Does the president attend congress and present bills, take part in debates, argue with the oppostion (if there is one) etc?- Does the president still consult with other members of his party, or does he have absolute personal power once he's elected?I guess I'm seeing checks and balances in the system here (and the UK, which our system is based on) that I can't see in the American system. Just curious is all.

katisha wrote:Thanks Bob, that's cleared up a couple of things I wondered about.But, despite my flippancy (and maybe TMI about Australian politics ) in the original post, I really would like to know more about how it works over there, if anyone has a few minutes to explain it to me.- I understand that the VP takes over if the president dies/becomes too incapacitated to preside, but is there some other power who can step in in an emergency; just say both the President and the VP died in a plane crash or whatever. Who would then have responsibility for running the country/deciding how the country should be run?- Is there a leader of the opposition and a shadow cabinet of opposition members? Is there, indeed, an opposition party?- Does the president attend congress and present bills, take part in debates, argue with the oppostion (if there is one) etc?- Does the president still consult with other members of his party, or does he have absolute personal power once he's elected?I guess I'm seeing checks and balances in the system here (and the UK, which our system is based on) that I can't see in the American system. Just curious is all. If both the president and VP couldn't do their duties, I believe it's the Speaker of the House who is third in line. In this case it's Nancy Pelosi, right guys? There is a leader of the Republican party right now. Steele is his name, right guys? (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) Although there is a leader of the "opposition" party here, it's not a parliamentary system like in the UK or in Australia. I think that is where some of your confusion lies. We don't have pure democracy here. It's a "representative democracy." I personally think the whole "representative democracy" idea is a load of crap. I think it needs to be more pure. We have elected legislators who swear to uphold the interests of their constituents and of the country, but more often than not they kiss ass to special interests or corporate lobbyists because those special interests and lobbyists have MONEY. As for an opposition party, they say that they're different over here (I'm talking about Republican versus Democrat), but they're basically the same. Even Obama hasn't done what he said he would do on certain issues. He is NOT being as transparent as he said he was (for example the pictures of detainees that he said he will NOT allow to be released and also the don't-ask-don't-tell issue regarding gays in the military). The president doesn't have absolute power. Then again, as we saw with Bush, that power can be abused. If the president and his cronies have political allies in the Supreme Court, for example, they can do some VERY strange and illegal things and get away with them. It's disgusting. Bush W. only got elected because the Supreme Court had a Republican majority. As for checks and ballances, we DO have them, but they can be clearly abused. The same is true for the UK. I hope I helped a little.

Cheers Pasquale It's all a bit complicated, innit?

Pasquale is right on with his assessment. Yes...Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi would be next in line. The only time a President goes to Congress is for his State of the Union address usually. All the debating over bills goes on between the Senate and Congress. Sometimes the President will bring leaders from the House and Senate over to the White House to discuss a bill. The President then signs off on a bill if he likes it, or vetos it if he doesn't. But everything is based on the lobbyists or the MONEY. For instance, a lot of the politicians that were leading the fight for immunity for the telecom companies that were letting the U.S. government wiretap phone calls were almost all big beneficiaries from the telecom industry. They included folks like Hillary Clinton and John McCain. They are other big lobbying groups like those in the Miltary Industrial Complex, BIG oil, BIG banking, pharmaceutical and insurance companies, plus many others. One can almost determine a politician's vote based on his donations by lobbyists. There are only a few politicians that are immune to that situation and have real backbone. I can name three offhand...Congressman Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, Congressman Ron Paul of Texas and Senator Russ Feingold of Wisconsin.

Katisha,Here's my take, in simple terms, because that's just the kind of guy I am-America really has a ONE PARTY SYSTEM- The Military Industrial Complex Party of which Eisenhower warned. The Democrats and Republicans make up two factions of this party, and while they genuinely disagree over many things, there are fundamental non-issues which never are on the table for debate, namely the need for an obscenely large military budget and the continuing pursuit of the American Empire.The main stream media promotes the illusion of the Democrats and Republicans representing two, almost polar opposite viewpoints, and Americans swallow the show hook, line and sinker.

American politics is like pro wrestling...lot's of drama...but it's ALL acting. One time when I just turned 18, I saw two professional wrestlers drinking arm and arm with each other like two long lost brothers. A completely different view as opposed to their wrestling antics and show boating, as they were supposedly fierce and hated enemies on TV. Look at Poppy & Dumbya Bush and when they are with Bill Clinton. They just LOVE each other when they are together (Mena is the connection), although alone they might make a political jab at the other to keep their bases happy and the MSM drinks it up. Thom is right...the MIC is in charge right now. They are without a doubt the biggest lobbying group in Washington, with BIG banking and BIG oil not far behind, followed by the pharmaceutical and insurance companies.

Great metaphor, Bob.

In America the president has not much to say, cause if he objects to the preset course of the more or less hidden elite of the military-industrial-private-bankers-complex he will be shot. So above the law is still the outlaw. At least in a system in which the executives don't accept to subordinate under human law. Platon said you have politics only insofar as the polites know each other. No politeia would exeed a population of 5000. So politics would come back to America, as soon as units of 5000, or lets say in the age of modern communication 50000, would regain real independance of their own money, arms, cultural coinage, education, infrastructure. Freedom starts, when any group of some 50000 humans would be free to decide to make it's own nation and to depossess anybody immediately, who is corrupt.