If the CIA had called off the "hit"...??

[Kirk]

Mr. Brychek,To each his own as they say. You would and should know more then I because of your friendship and more in depth interest for a longer period of time. My experience though limted in comparsion says both the CIA, Mafia and Military always works in teams for a number of reasons, but mostly so the job gets done. It is harder to back out or back way when teamed. Maybe it didn't happen this way this time. Maybe it was just one person in Dal-Tex, one person in TSBD, and one behind the fence, with many coming in to abort the mission. I try not to let my ego get in the way of the truth, not my truth, but the actual truth. Personally I think America is ready for it. The only way to find that truth is that all we might know is laid out for all to see, and come what may. Of course that is not a guarantee of the complete truth being known, but it is required for it to happen.I have thoughts that the shots that many thought were firecrackers, were in fact firecrackers. Can I prove it? No Could they have been firecrackers? Yes Would it help to look for firecrackers? No My point is to connect the dots, all the dots must at least be shown, and no extra dots need to be created at this point.Now, I take it on Faith that Mr. Files served in the military, and was an expert. Partly because his story rings true with a rumor about my late Father, who is buried in Gettysburg about 25 feet or so from where Lincoln supposedly gave the address. I am very proud of that for reasons I do not really understand yet because I barely got a chance to know him because of his wounds and burns that lead to his death. He served in Korea, but that was not where he was "hurt" or wounded. One story I like about my Dad was that when he was to be tested for some survival test. He would find out where it was going to be, and would go there in advance and leave food and water in places. He was the only one tested that would come back in better shape, then when he left.So the question that started me on this forum was in fact what Mr. Files said. He said that he took off his scope and looked around the plaza. He also left evidence behind. He shot with some one very close that could identify him, and lucky enough turned out to be some one with Secret Service identification that could convince people to look elsewhere. Mr. Files said he pulled out his hat and put it on after turning his coat inside out. Joe, Wim and many others have helped to answer it enough for me. Maybe you can help as well.KIrkBruce Patrick Brychek wrote:Gentlemen:Military Snipers in the field use spotters for longer range shots.CIA Assassin Snipers in urban environments never, ever use spotters.Jimmy was 80 - 100 feet from JFK with a 3 Power Scope. JFK looked like he was 6 feet away.JFK was so close that he could have been shot with Fixed Sites, without a scope.Spotter for what ? To double the chance of being seen ? To double the risk of getting away ?Show me one authoritative source for your statements, please ?You can't see him being there without a spotter based upon what authority, other than a guess, or to re-repeat some other inexperienced comment.A spotter in a crowded area, to draw double attention makes zero sense.This also doubles the chance of one of them being caught, for what purpose ?Do you even think through what you are writing ?Comments ?Respectfully,Bruce Patrick Brychek.

[Bruce Patrick Brychek]

Dear Mr. Dave Cannon:Dave - Welcome back, as it is always good to see a strong contributor on the JFK Forum. I know that your contribution will stimulate healthy analysis and good academic discussion from our most intelligent members. I agree that the Mafia was strongly involved in the Assassination/Coup de' tat of JFK with select members of the CIA, and certainly other alphabet groups who also had major involvement. Therefore, Quantifying and Qualifying the exact levels of involvement and contributions, and what affiliation, agency, or group that they actually represented on 11.22.1963 are made more difficult, and perhaps indistinguishable by the fact that many involved worked for, or had allegiances to more than one group. Further, there was Compartmentalization, Denial, Lying, Misrepresentation, Need To Know, Plausible Deniability, and Total Lack of Proof.Then we consider one of My Favorite Levels of Analysis, Sequential Time Line Analysis. Who, What, Where, When, Why, and How, at What Specific Point In Time. This would include Analysis of and Proof of Conspiracy Involvement Before, During, and After each major aspect. The reconstruction of Proof in 2010 is virtually impossible with any absolute certainty at each and every Nexus, or Tangential Point.For example:Edward Lansdale was Military, Military Intelligence, Pentagon, and CIA,Lee Harvey Oswald was Military, CIA, and FBI.James Earl Sutton was Military, CIA, and Mafia.Johnny Roselli was Mafia, and CIA.And on, and on.Dave my point besides strongly agreeing with you at least in part, but not carte blanche, is to refer you to an old Post and Headline of mine Posted 04.06.2006 entitled JFK Was Actively Involved In CIA Assassination Plots. I will make a brief Post and Comment to you therein, and raise it to the foreground.I believed then, and now that the Assassination/Coup de' tat of JFK must study all major related, and inter-related Subject Matters with a fluid analysis, as JFK was clearly evolving in his futuristic, intellectual, and realistic goals. But understand this, JFK Sought To Change Things In Our Lifetime. And he was killed for it.After studying my point, pay attention to the visceral comments that I received. What are your thoughts about that, also ? Had you questioned JFK and RFK'S involvement in "questionable" activities in 2006 on the JFK Forum you would have been blasted as I was.Comments ?Respectfully,Bruce Patrick Brychek.

[JDB4JFK]

Dave, you remind me of the assistant prosecuting attorney in the JFK movie who ask Jim Garrison (Kevin Costner) the same question you just stated above about the mafia being the main source behind the murder of JFK! And how did Jim Garrison respond? The mafia wouldn't have the balls to try and pull that off without guarantees of back ups from the federal government! Did the mafia have the power to change the parade route, did the mafia have the power to get the secrete service to stand down, did the mafia have the power to make the milatary stand down, was it the mafia guys on the walkie talkies, was it the mafia that got Oswald to be the patsy and got him to go to the theater?,was it hte mafia who got all those CIA men there to show up and watch the assassingnation, did the mafia get LBJ TO MAKE A MESS out of the investigation, did the mafia make the Warren Commision cover up the evidence of the assassination??????????? I could go on and on here, but really we are going back 20 years on philosophys that weve covered and know couldn't have happen!

[Phil Dragoo]

Gentlemen, in order of your appearance, Alec, andries, Bruce, Kirk, Joe, jsnow, Tom, JDB4JFK, Dave, and those to follow downthread,We approach this as a presentation unique in our Republic's two hundred thirty-four year history, a coup d'etat involving the intelligence web, the military cabal, the industrial barons of manufacture and energy, the financial kings, the organized crime capos, and others not identified at this level of middle management, as well as those not named in a shadowy level of power above.Have we not seen our plight in The Blind Men and the Elephant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_ ... elephantWe feel the trunk, the leg, the tail, the body, the ear, the tusk; we observe the CIA, the military, the oil men, the Mafia, the Cuban exiles, the FBI, the Secret Service, Johnson, Hoover.Is it not like the song Nice Nice Very Nice by Ambrosia:nice nice very niceso many people in the same deviceThe eclectic group took its lyrics from Kurt Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle: see the cat, see the cradle, the author repeats.To Vonnegut—who just died—there was no cat, no cradle, and the whole thing was a sham—why didn't people see how ridiculous it was—poor Kurt Vonnegut.Vonnegut's Hardware was on 38th Street near Pennsylvania, not so far from Welch Candy Company on 38th near Fall Creek and the Coliseum where the International Rally for Freedom from Communism was held.Welch founded the Birch Society in Indianapolis in 1957. Jim Jones had a great run there. Vonnegut went to Shortridge High as did my father; the school bears the inscription in its granite header:A DISCIPLINED MIND AND CULTIVATED HEART ARE ELEMENTS OF POWERTo dead-end with Mafia-Castro is premature assassination, as is Johnson-did-it, as is Bush ex Machina, or a Ben Stein-like Milhous-Milhous.Bruce, you advance beyond the usual terra cotta game board with a four-dimensional hologram.We mustn't settle for less than the opera which includes Ruth Paine as Gene Wilder's Frau Blucher—every time she hisses “that eeevil Lee Oswald” the horses in the courtyard whinny in their terror.Angleton the orchid-grower (O Nero Wolfe!) plotted Oswald in his files for years. ONI used Oswald as a penetration agent and a dangle.FBI used Oswald against FPCC.As Prouty and Douglass and Horne and Bruce have indicated, Oswald was the removal tool for the dangerous Kennedy.He blew the Bay of Pigs by not allowing the B-26 strike to take out Castro's three T-33s (see Hunt, Give Us This Day, 1973).Bobby had harrassed Marcello, Giancana, Traficante, and Ferrie was involved with Marcello, and Ruby was on the phone to intermediaries; the Castro plots involved Rosselli.Kennedy wouldn't attack Cuba or the Soviets—there were Soviet missiles in Cuba, and the US had over a hundred ICBMs to Russia's six; 600 strategic bombers to their 100.Kennedy was pulling us out of Vietnam; see NSAM 263 vs LBJ's NSAM 273 November 26, 1963.Kennedy was blowing the Fed out of the water; see EO 11110.Kennedy was taking the oil men's depletion allowance.Kennedy was booting LBJ from the ticket, meaning prison from the Billie Sol Estes and Bobby Baker scandals.Kennedy was booting Hoover; ending the forced-retirement waiver.Kennedy banned A-tests and would shatter the CIA into a thousand pieces.Bruce speaks of military precision. Of the protocols of the urban sniper. Of the clear foreknowledge of witness behavior vis-a-vis Jimmy's hat trick.The confiscation and alteration or destruction of photographic evidence.The hounding of inconvenient witnesses, some to their death (Roger Craig, Lee Bowers, Dorothy Kilgallen).Abort?Would the most powerful men in the most powerful nation yield that power to the new kid?As Douglass wrote Merton predicted, “He was soon marked for assassination.”This was a masterpiece of evil intent and will not be undone without surpassing scholarship and clear intent.To our renewed discipline of mind and cultivation of heart, that we shall have that justice we seek.One word on that note—Gene Wilder notes Igor banging on Frau Blucher's door, “Look at those knockers!” as he helps Teri Garr from the coach.I saw Mark Rudd and his Maoists at the Nixon Counterinnaugural January 19, 1969, as they ran chanting “Ho ho ho Chi Minh! The NLF is gonna win!” through Washington, diverting to the sidewalk to bang the iron knockers on the great metal doors of Justice.The shirtsleeved attorneys in the windows on the second floor gave them the finger.This was a government operation to remove an anomaly, a peacenik at the peak of the Cold War, an enemy of the status quo, an Enemy of the State.Take special note that every administration since, Republican and Democrat, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, GHWBush, Clinton, Wbush, Obama has refused to oppose the Warren coverup.If this were an act of any one branch, or any small group, it would have been outed. We know it was not the Oswald who was not in that window and never handled that rifle.It was an operation by the same bunch that took a planeload of corpses dressed in military uniforms, chained a phony invasion plan to the wrist of one of them, and crashed it where the Germans would find it, just to safeguard the Normandy invasion.Would this machinery simply abort the most important op since the Manhattan Project because one of its principals stuttered?The bullet entered the right temple.Abort this.

[Dave Cannon]

Dear Mr. Brychek,Thank you for the welcome back. Since I am a teacher, I don't usually have much time to follow the forum and post during the fall and spring, but now that school is out, I find time to read and research. You are very articulate in your posts and I agree with you. Yes, I know have investigated the "questionable" activities of JFK and RFK. RFK had an unauthorized plot called operation AMWORLD, aka "Operation Judas" that was to replace Castro with Juan Almeida(one of Castro's Generals who was indirectly in contact with RFK and desired to set up a democracy in Cuba). I do believe that the Mafia used their knowledge of the plots against the Kennedy's. The Mafia knew that the CIA would have to cover up the plots to avoid, a war, national embarrassment, and many high ranking officials, like Richard Helms, McCone and others would lose their jobs and gravely damage their careers. Lastly, if the US government allowed the investigation to point to something other than "the lone nut" then it would have easily led to the Mafia and then the Mafia would expose JFK and RFK's illegal plots to get Castro out of power. This would ruin RFK's political career and any chance of RFK's of becoming the next President. I also believe that organized crime assassinated RFK because of his actions in the early 60's and his potential to harm their organization if he became President. Did the CIA assassinate RFK also? No way!I read how you were blasted by your post and all I can say is that we need to keep searching for the truth. There are still literally millions of files still at the National Archives that have not been released. Lamar Waldron's recent work has an been excellent resource on some of the latest discoveries as recently as 2009. "Legacy of Secrecy" is definitely a recommended read. Since it is well documented that the CIA and the Mafia were involved in many plots to kill Castro, it would be difficult to determine who was working for who that day. I do support Lamar Waldron's research and opinion that Oswald was posing as a Marxist and was involved in one of the CIA/Mafia plots to kill Castro whom Johnny Rosselli was involved. This would support Ms. Baker's statement that Oswald was a patriot and Waldron's research and others indicate that Oswald was trying to get into Cuba to aid in the plot to kill Castro.Yes, the CIA was there that day in Dallas. Did they call the hit? I don't think so, Did they try to call it off, IMO yes, but the CIA was not in control in Dallas that day. The Mafia was and the men who killed Kennedy were following orders from Marcello, Trafficante and Giancana.Mr. Brychek, I would like to investigate more about Edward Lansdale. Would you recommend some reliable sources of information on him?Respectfully,Dave Cannon

[Bruce Patrick Brychek]

Dear Mr. Dave Cannon:Dave - 09.18.2006 I Posted the Headline Edward G. Lansdale, CIA Superagent. I have just added a brief Addendum to bring that Post to the forefront of the JFK Forum for your easy Reference, Review, and Analysis. And of course anyone else who is interested in this Subject Matter, or related issues.I think that you will note that some of the Most Powerful Minds on the JFK Forum, in My Opinion, made major contributions therein. And of course many of them remain here today. They are an august group of intellects, and I am humbled to work with some of them so deeply, for so long.I draw your attention to that Post, along with everyone else's Focus.Comments ?Respectfully,Bruce Patrick Brychek.

[Dave Cannon]

Gentlemen,Did James Files ever mention Michel Victor Mertz or Jean Souetre'. According to Lamar Waldron, Mertz is believed using the alias Souetre's name as an alias that day and he was in Dallas. Could Mertz be the one standing next to Mr. Files or the 2nd gunman in the depository building? There were several witnesses that clearly saw 2 men in the depository window. One was heavy set and the other dark skinned.Any comments or information appreciated.Dave Cannon

[Dealey Joe]

Phil I admire your keen mind and cutting edge vocabulary.And I particularly want to commend you for your use of the terminology "Republic"What I want to ask you, one who is far above my understanding, is:Do you think JFK was a dead man no matter what?don't you think there would have been a Chain of Command even though there were many operations involved in the ordered Assassination.Is it possible there were teams at different locations in Dallas along the motorcade routeinstead of all being in Dealey Plaza?The command post would have the authority to call stand downs for any or all shooter locations?If so knowing there were attempts to be made in Chicago, Miami that were foiled.Why not Dallas?I just can't quite understand why there could not have been "cease and desist" orders issued along the route.I also don't understand the so called change of the route to go from Main and down Elm?It is not possible to enter Stemmons Northbound from Maim St. would have to be from Elm.

[andries]

Phil you new kind off shakespeare, and Joe you dangerous deputy, why the hell did we ever came up with a possible freud authopsy,a second riffle,an altered zapruder himzelf and his altered film,a second oswald,a secret service standdown and some more theories wich those bastards and the likes off them have alway,s rejected with high complex mathematics and amazing siencethere has never been any need and bother for complex investagation sience,(impossible) acording to sam holland,j price,simmons,lee bowers,ed hoffman c codd,and their sober and the mostimportant and underated statements or even better convessions in human history.from different angles they all have in common that they all used the word smoke and shotat same time and place.it,s impossible to reject them all that,s left is ignorince,silence,and a possible fallen cokebottle and hot steampipe or motorciclebeing the cause.my ass,, spector belongs in jail for the rest off his life only acompanied with a overheated steampipe and a lifetime supply off free cokebottles in his cel.they got les attention than a second riffle or a second oswald or a called off hitdispite that they wer,e and still are the living fundament that there was more than just one manand three sad bullets

[Dealey Joe]

Damm Andries your wound up!you been talkin to Ed again??