If the CIA had called off the "hit"...??

[Dealey Joe]

Well Hoosier Tom,I can see your point and I can't argue with you.

[Dealey Joe]

KirkThey wanted JFK dead and for some reason they decided to do it a different place.Since the job got done who was to be pissed.just scramble and get all the lost ducks in order.and I am sure the CIA was not interested in a war with Chicago.

[Jsnow915]

Joe...you gotta remember too..how J E Hoover denied the exsistance of the mob...he had to cover his ass and his reputation

[Kirk]

Hey Joe,That is possible, but I just don't believe Professionals act that way, especially when doing something so extreme and so well planned with so many moving parts. The one guy that deserves utmost attention was James Hosty of the FBI. Seems like the weakest link in the chain. I think Oswald was CIA,but FBI as well. I think he warned Hosty and others in advance. I think he thought his actions had created an abort....but history shows nothing was aborted.Kirk

[Dealey Joe]

Kirk how do you propose Oswald was to be used by this well oiled machine?With all the professional CIA there, what was the Chicago mafia doing there?Did CIA do their own dirty work or did the mob want in on it to payback for CUBA?

[Bruce Patrick Brychek]

Gentlemen:Members of the CIA were involved in the Assassination/Coup de' tat of JFK. Study David Atlee Phillips storied Renegade Career. That does not mean that the CIA or Phillips was totally in charge. He was involved at the highest levels and was there that day, not to work on his vain suntan.Members of the Pentagon were involved in the Assassination/Coup de' tat of JFK. Study Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty's works. He further underscores the Stand Down Orders with both the Military and the Secret Service. That does not mean that the Pentagon was in charge. Telling the Secret Service to stand down would only require one person, not the entire Secret Service, that is ludicrous. As Prouty states, merely say that another Unit is taking over today.Members of the DOD and DIA were involved in the Assassination/Coup de' tat of JFK. Study Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty, and Lieutenant Colonel Dan "Dangerous Dan" Marvins works. That does not mean that the DOD or DIA was in charge. But this was a Military Style Ambush, with Military Precision.General Lansdale was there, and had Operation Control on the ground for the Controlling Powers, for the Assassination/Coup de' tat of JFK. Do some research and study here.Lee Harvey Oswald was no fluke, he just did not show up working there by coincidence. He was developed, having Intelligence Training, Intelligence Clearance, High Level Intelligence U - 2 involvement, and Russian training, and had possession of the Highest Level CIA Spy Technology with him in Dallas. Do some research and study here also. He had been involved with James Earl Sutton, Guy Bannister, David Ferrie, and too many others to count going back years. Lee was Jimmy's escort around Dallas.Jack Ruby was previously Jacob Rubenstein, having worked with Senator Richard Milhouse Nixon verified as early as 1948. He then worked under Tony Accardo, and Sam Giancana in the Chicago Mafia. Then he was sent, ordered to go to operate in Dallas, Texas for the Chicago Mafia.The CIA - Mafia ties with Meyer Lansky, Lucky Luciano, Benny "Bugsy" Segal, Frank Costello, Joe Kennedy, Jimmy Hoffa, and others involved in Cuba Gambling, Drugs, Prostitution, Extortion, Murder, and countless other crimes is well documented. There are over 700 books alone on this Subject Matter.JFK sought to break the Oil Depletion Allowance.JFK Sought to end Viet Nam, Laos, and Cambodia.JFK had legally ended the Federal Reserve.JFK took on The Military Industrial Complex, and The War Profiteers, along with The Seven Sisters (The Seven Major Oil Companies).JFK was taking on Civil Rights.JFK had fired Allen Dulles, Richard Bissell, and Charles Cabel.Assassination/Coup de' tats are not sent out on paper, or over the phone. There were no cell phones, no faxes, no blackberries, no email, etc.The reasons for wanting JFK dead now fill the 5,000 + plus books on JFK. Some real research, reading, and study is required. This Cut And Paste Mentality so often displayed on JFK Forums simply provides very few overall answers. Like everything else, the real secret is time consuming independent research and study, coupled with real thinking and analysis of many authoritative sources.There is no proof that the CIA called off the hit on JFK. Allegedly, only Johnny Roselli said so. He had no rank or authority, so Chain of Command arguments hold no water. Don't wait for the CIA to admit anything. But the 40 + year freeze on JFK Documents by the CIA and NSA tell me something.So, no proof the CIA really called off anything for real. This weak point allows for Plausible Deniability. There was no real abort team. Robert Tosh Plumlee, who I like and respect, couldn't stop a single camera man, let alone a sniper walking around looking like Elvis Presley. He never approached Lansdale, Hunt, Sturges, the Umbrella Man, or his radio man.The so very obvious Umbrella Man was a signal man, next to a radio man.You do not put an operation like this into play, then try to stop it on the scene simultaneous to the Planned Event.The box car filled with tons of explosives, left open near by was not a coincidence.Jimmy Sutton did not go against any CIA orders as you state in your opinion. Simply put your analysis is totally wrong.You are right that Professionals follow orders. No valid Order to stop the hit was given. FACT, NOT OPINION.Again, Phillips was not Operations Control. He was a Thinker, Planner, Controller, and Handler at this point in time. On 11.22.1963 Lansdale had Operations Control on the ground in the immediate area.You offer a lot of personal doubt and conjecture, with no thinking processes, and no references to a single recognized authoritative source. Seldom do I see such unsubstantiated arguments based upon such shallow levels of analysis.The Assassination/Coup de' tat had at least 6 prior "dry runs." And only 2 - 3 have been discussed herein the JFK Forum.The Warren Commission, The House Select Committee, et. al., and the song goes on.Why is there such an absolute 40 year stonewall over the JFK Assassination/Coup de' tat ? Who had the power to pull it off, and cover it up ?To believe some of the doubts Posted above, the JFK Assassination/Coup de' tat if not planned with the CIA and other alphabet groups would have to be the Greatest Cosmic Coincidence in the history of the planet earth.I don't believe that.Comments ?Respectfully,Bruce Patrick Brychek.

[Phil Dragoo]

Tom, I think you refer to Robert Morrow, First Hand Knowledge: http://www.amazon.com/First-Hand-Knowle ... 11799Bruce, you have carpet-bombed the field and there is no one left standing.Douglass is available online: http://www.maryknollsocietymall.org/cha ... 6.pdf370-4 the tale of Wayne January and the CIA plane indicates all systems were go.298-304 U.S. Air Force sergeant Robert G. Vinson of NORAD witnessed Morales and Lee leaving Dallas on a C-54 which landed by the Trinity River on the perimeter of Oak Cliff. A well-oiled machine.If the game was called, why did Umbrella Man and Walkie Talkie Man remain on the field.Hunt told son Saint he was there. Phillips told his brother he was there. Secret Service displayed credentials though there were no Secret Service on the ground.Tactical revisions were made. The painstaking sheepdipping of Oswald as a Soviet/Cuban agent bombed when even Hoover wasn't fooled by the Mexico City farce.JFK banked a massive amount of piss-off and it all crashed that day in a display of interagency cooperation the likes of which won't be seen again in our lifetime.

[Alec]

Thanks everyone for their input. I had looked but never found this question on these forums, so I apologize for repeating the question.That's one thing always "bothered" me about finding the Mauser in the TSBD. Why not just say Oswald used a damn Mauser? Why did it have to be a Carcano? Seems like those in power set themselves up for conspiracy theories, sometimes.

[Phil Dragoo]

10 REASONS WHY I BELIEVE THE "OSWALD RIFLE" ISN'T OSWALD'S"by Gil Jesushttp://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.php?a ... 5804&page=

[Kirk]

Joe, Well it is just conjecture on my part, but I believe the CIA and Mafia are two sides of the same coin, and have at least intertwined root systems. As we know in all businesses there are incompetents, so is the case for the Mafia and the CIA, but this was the Super Bowl, even before we had Super Bowls. I think Oswald was undercover and a double agent, but a double agent for who is the question. I think that he had been betrayed for awhile, and was being set up and used, otherwise they would have killed him long before Kennedy came to town.KirkDealey Joe wrote:Kirk how do you propose Oswald was to be used by this well oiled machine?With all the professional CIA there, what was the Chicago mafia doing there?Did CIA do their own dirty work or did the mob want in on it to payback for CUBA?