JFK Assassination - What's Wrong with this Picture?

[RobertP]

Look closely at this photo. This is the famous "Altgens 6" photo taken by James "Ike" Altgens during the assassination. We are told it corresponds to frame z255 in the Zapruder film.

[RobertP]

Now that you've had a chance to study Mr. Altgens' photo, consider this. Mr. Altgens testified to the Warren Commission that, from the time of the first shot until the fatal head shot at z312, the limo moved no more than thirty feet on Elm St. He also testified that JFK was no more than fifteen feet from him at the time of the fatal head shot. He also testified that the limousine was approximately thirty feet from him at the time of the first shot.It is interesting to note here how Mr. Altgens established that he was thirty feet from the limousine at the time of the first shot. Mr. Altgens, a photographer with Associated Press for twenty-six years, was using a telephoto lens on his camera that day. This lens had settings for distance on it and he had pre-set his lens for a distance of thirty feet in preparation for taking the Altgens 6 photo. Taking this picture was a simple matter of pointing the camera at the limousine and, when the limousine came into focus at 30-40 feet, snapping a picture; which is precisely what he did. Do you see Mr. Altgens in frame z312 (the moment of the fatal head shot)?

[kenmurray]

It appears that there could be several things wrong with the Altgen's photo:http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com/2013/03 ... ivera.html

[RobertP]

From the Warren Commission testimony of James W. Altgens, July 22, 1964:"Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car.Mr. LIEBELER - You have indicated a spot along the side of Elm Street which I have marked with a No. 3; is that correct?Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.Mr. LIEBELER - Is that approximately where you were standing?Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.Mr. LIEBELER - Now, when you took the picture of the caravan turning from Main Street to the right on Houston Street, you then ran across this Dealey Plaza?Mr. ALTGENS - Down this way; yes, sir.Mr. LIEBELER - Along the lawn part.Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.Mr. LIEBELER - To the point marked No. 3 on Commission Exhibit No. 354?Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.Mr. LIEBELER - And at that point did you take another picture?Mr. ALTGENS - I made one picture at the time I heard a noise that sounded like a firecracker--I did not know it was a shot, but evidently my picture, as I recall, and it was almost simultaneously with the shot--the shot was just a fraction ahead of my picture, but that much---of course at that time I figured it was nothing more than a firecracker, because from my position down here the sound was not of such volume that it would indicate to me it was a high-velocity rifle."

[RobertP]

From the Warren Commission testimony of James W. Altgen, July 22, 1964:"Mr. LIEBELER - You testified previously, I believe, that the first shot that was fired had just been fired momentarily before you took the picture, is that right?Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir; it was so close you could almost say it was simultaneous because it was coincidental but nevertheless that's just the way it happened."

[RobertP]

FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION Date December 7, 1963 MARY ELIZABETH WOODWARD, 4812 Alcott, employee, Woman's News, "Dallas Morning News," Dallas, Texas, advised that she, AURELIA ALONZO, MARGARET BROWN and ANNE DONALDSON, on November 22, 1963 left the office of the "Dallas Morning NEWS" just about 12:00 noon to observe the Presidential Motorcade. They walked to Elm Street and stopped in front of the Texas School Book Depository building, but were located a short distance down the street near the second light post. They were standing in this spot when the Presidential Motorcade came by. She stated she was watching President and Mrs. KENNEDY closely, and all of her group cheered loudly as they went by. Just as the President and Mrs. KENNEDY went by, they turned and waved at them. Just a second or two later, she heard a loud noise. At this point, it appeared to her that President and Mrs. KENNEDY probably were about one hundred feet from her. There seemed to be a pause of a few seconds, and then there were two more loud noises which she suddenly realized were shots, and she saw President KENNEDY fall over and Mrs. KENNEDY jumped up and started crawling over the back of the car. She stated that her first reaction was that the shots had been fired from above her head and from possibly behind her. Her next reaction was that the shots might have come from the overpass which was to her right. She stated, however, because of the loud echo, she could not say where the shots had come from, other than they had come from above her head. She stated that she had seen about five or six persons standing on top of the overpass, and possibly this is why her first reaction was to look at the top of this overpass. She never at any time saw anything in the hands of the people on the overpass. She never looked at any time toward the Texas School Book Depository building, and stated she could not furnish any information regarding anyone who appeared to be leaving the area, as there was a lot of confusion and everyone was running around. She and her friends stayed for a few minutes under a tree on the grounds of the Texas School Book Depository building, as she thought that she was going to be sick. After standing under this tree for a few minutes, they returned to their office. She stated she did not know RUBY or OSWALD and stated to her knowledge she did not see either RUBY or OSWALD at the scene of the assassination. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------on 12/6/63 at Dallas, Texas File # DL 89-43 By Special Agent HENRY J. OLIVER, DAVID R. BARRY Date Dictated 12/6/63 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Mary Woodward can be seen in the Altgens photo if we look just to the left of the motorcycle cop on the passenger side of the limousine. There is a man wearing a hard hat standing next to the light pole seen there. She is the light haired woman second to the left of the hard hat man.Here again we have a puzzling statement. According to the FBI report about Mary Woodward above, JFK was about one hundred feet further down Elm Street past her position at the time of the first shot. Yet, according to Warren Commission apologists, the first shot heard by the crowd happened 5.18 seconds before this photo, if this photo matches chronologically to frame z255 of the Zapruder film; even though Mr. Altgens testified that he heard the shot a fraction of a second before he snapped this photo. (some consideration must be given here for Mr. Altgens' position and the speed of sound. There is a chance the sound of a rifle shot from the TSBD or the Dal-Tex Building did not reach his ears as quickly as it would the ears of those next to the TSBD. However, if the speed of sound is roughly 1,126 feet per second and Mr. Altgens was, at most, 350 feet from the Sniper's Nest on the 6th floor of the TSBD, this would mean the sound would have been delayed by approximately less than 1/3 of a second; barely noticeable) If the limousine was travelling at 12 mph, as claimed, it would have been covering 17.6 feet per second. If we multiply this by 5.18 seconds, we find that the limo would have been 91.16 closer to the corner of Elm and Houston at the time of the first shot. This would have been a considerable distance before the limo passed by Miss Woodward and her friends.What does all of this tell us? It would appear to me that we are slowly beginning to paint a picture in which the assassination took place in a much shorter distance and much closer to Mr. Altgens than described to us by the Warren Commission. In fact, the figure of thirty feet from the first to last shot, provided by Mr. Altgens, does not seem so outlandish after all; especially if we accept as true the testimony from an overwhelming number of witnesses, including Louie Steven Witt (the infamous Umbrella Man), that the limo swerved to the left and stopped after the shooting began.From the testimony to the HSCA of Louie Steven Witt, eyewitness to the assassination."Mr. GENZMAN. What happened next? I believe you testified that you were moving forward opening your umbrella as the motorcade was approaching you? Mr. WITT. Yes. As I moved toward the street, still walking on the grass, I heard the shots that I eventually learned were shots. At the time somehow it didn't register as shots because they were so close together, and it was like hearing a string of firecrackers, or something like that. It didn't at that moment register on me as being shots. Mr. GENZMAN. Did you react in any way? Mr. WITT. No. I continued to move forward and finally got this umbrella up in the air. I think by the time I got the thing up in the air I was over and possibly standing on the retaining wall. Mr. GENZMAN. Did President Kennedy see your umbrella? Mr. WITT. I have no way of knowing. I really don't. Mr. GENZMAN. What do you next recall happening? Mr. WITT. Let me go back a minute. As I was moving forward I apparently had this umbrella in front of me for some few steps. Whereas other people I understand saw the President shot and his movements; I did not see this because of this thing in front of me, The next thing I saw after I saw the car coming down the street, down the hill to my left, the car was just about at a position like this [indicating] at this angle here. At this time there was the car stopping, the screeching of tires, the jamming on of brakes, motorcycle patrolman right there beside one of the cars. One car ran upon the President's car and a man jumped off and jumped on the back. These were the scenes that unfolded as I reached the point to where I was seeing things."

[RobertP]

The following is an FBI report, author and date unknown, written after an interview with Charles F. Brehm. Mr. Brehm was standing on the grassy area on the south side of Elm Street and was an eyewitness to the assassination of JFK. He was not called to testify before the Warren Commission. He can be partially seen at the extreme right hand side of the Altgens photo. It is his hands we see raised and clapping and the shadow of his five year old son can be made out just beside him. Mary Moorman's and Jean Hill's shadows can be seen to his left. As a point of interest, look at the distance between Brehm's shadow and the shadows of Moorman and Hill. Then go to this site http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z292.jpg and look at frame z292 of the Zapruder film and compare the distance between these people. Even though Mr. Altgens was using a telephoto lens for this picture, there does appear to be quite an unreasonable difference in the two photos.Pay particular attention to what is stated in the second to last paragraph in this report regarding how far Mr. Brehm felt the limousine moved between the first and last shot."CHARLES F. BREHM, 1619 Kings Highway, was interviewed at his residence at which tme he furnished the following information: He and his five-year-old son went to downtown Dallas to view the President's motorcade, and the parked their car in the Main-Houston Street area about 15 minutes before the motorcade was due to come down Main Street. He took a vantage point on the northwest corner of the intersection of Main and Houston Streets and from that point, he was able to watch the car in which the President and MRS. KENNEDY rode, maing a right turn from Main Street into Houston Street. After the President's automobile had rounded the corner into Houston Street, he picked up his five-year-old son and ran across the grass from Main Street over to the downhill curved portion of Elm Street which leads from Houston Street to the Stemmons Expressway. He and his son stood right at the curb on the grass and saw the President's car take a wide swing as it turned left from Houston Street into Elm Street. When the President's automobile was very close to him and he could see the President's face very well, the President was seated, but was leaning forward when he stiffened perceptibly at the same instant what appeared to be a rifle shot sounded. According to BREHM, the President seemed do to stiffen and come to a pause when another shot sounded and the President appeared to be badly hit in the head. BREHM said when the President was hit by the second shot, he could notice the President's hair fly up, and then roll over to his side, as Mrs. KENNEDY was apparently pulling him in that direction. BREHM said that a third shot followed and that all three shots were relatively close together. BREHM stated that he was in military service and he has had experience with bolt-action rifles, and he expressed the opinion that the three shots were fired just about as quickly as an individual can maneuver a bolt-action rifle, take aim, and fire three shots. BREHM stated he definitely knew the President had been shot and he recalled having seen blood on the President's face. He also stated that it seemed quite apparent to him that the shots came from one of two buildings back at the corner of Elm and Houston Streets. Immediately after the third shot rang out, BREHM pushed his son down on the grass and for the moment was more concerned with the safety of his son who might be hit accidentally by any wild gunfire which might follow. BREHM expressed his opinion that between the first and third shots, the President's car only seemed to move 10 or 12 feet. It seemed to him that the automobile almost came to a halt after the first shot, but of this he is not certain. After the third shot, the car in which the President was riding increased its speed and went under the freeway overpass and out of his sight. As soon as the President's car went on its way out of sight, numerous reporters and police officers came running down the hill to the general area where he was standing and many of them gathered around him and began asking him questions. He answered questions of reporters and police officers to the best of his knowledge and recollection, after which he was escorted up to the Dallas police station where he was interviewed some more. He estimated that he was detained at the Police Department for a period of two hours before he was finally permitted to leave."

[RobertP]

Another oddity about Altgens' photo is the motorcycle cops (four of them) that were riding escort for the limousine; in particular, the two cops that were riding to the right rear of the limousine. If we look at frame z255 of the Zapruder film, it is quite obvious there are no motorcycle cops beside the passenger compartment of the limousine. It can be seen at this site: http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z255.jpgA look at the Altgens photo not only shows Officer Glen Chaney (assigned to the right rear position closest to the limousine) abreast of Connally's position in the limousine, with Officer Chaney looking over his left shoulder at JFK, it also shows that his escort partner, Officer Douglas L. Jackson (assigned to the right rear outboard position), is nowhere in sight on his motorcycle. Granted, the photo was made with a telephoto lens but, this does not explain the fact we can see part of Chaney's shadow protruding out onto the pavement beside the limousine.If Officers Chaney and Jackson were in position alongside the followup car, as are Officers Martin and Hargis on the other side of the followup car, we would be able to see Officer Chaney through the windshield of the limousine and Officer Jackson would be visible beside him.

[RobertP]

The next thing that appears to be incorrect in this photo (or the Zapruder film, take your pick) are the people seen standing on the south side of Elm Street. What is odd about them, all two of them, is that it is hard to determine just exactly where on Elm Street they are actually standing. This may be why, following its publication on 22/11/63 by Associated Press, subsequent copies of this photo were cropped to eliminate the two people standing on the south curb. We are fortunate to be able to view the restored version. The crop line is quite visible on the right hand side of the photo.Once again, due to Mr. Altgens' telephoto lens and the curvature of Elm Street at this location, it is difficult to achieve an accurate perspective when viewing this photo, but we will try. Keep in mind that this photo is supposed to have been taken at the same moment as frame z255 of the Zapruder film was taken.First, let us look at the furthest away man on the right side of the photo. He is the one in coveralls with his arms hanging down. I am not sure if he has ever been identified. Anyone? If we look at frame z255 of the zapruder film, seen at this link http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z255.jpg we can see that the Zapruder film and Mr. Altgens' photo agree on one point; namely, the outboard escort motorcycle on the south side of the limo has just barely passed this man. This also weakens the argument about things in this photo being "compressed" due to the use of a telephoto lens. The motorcycle looks to be no further past this man in the film than it does to be in the photo.Now, let us compare the position of "coveralls man" to the position of people on the other side of Elm St. I'm not sure how the rest of you see this but, in my opinion, if Coveralls Man was to walk straight across Elm St., I think he would be facing the man in the hard hat standing next to the light pole. However, if we look at frame z225 of the Zapruder film, http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z255.jpg we find Coveralls Man across the road from the Stemmons Freeway sign. Looking at frame z160, http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z160.jpg we can just make out Hard Hat Man at the extreme left of the frame in the slightly blurred edge. Of course, Coveralls Man is not visible in this frame.To get a better idea of how out of position Coveralls Man is, go to this YouTube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq1PbgeBoQ4The closer man, seen clapping, is Charles Brehm. We discussed him earlier in this thread. He stated several things to the FBI. 1. JFK was very close to him at the time of the first shot, close enough to see JFK's face very well. 2. The limo did not seem to move more then 10-12 feet between the first and third shot. 3. After the first shot, the limo came almost to a halt.It is a little harder to pinpoint Mr. Brehm's position. However, if the perspective on Coveralls Man is not distorted by the telephoto lens, we can assume that Brehm is standing, at the very most, five feet ahead of the limo. If Mr. Altgens is correct about the first shot being fired a fraction of a second before he snapped his photo, this would also corroborate Mr. Brehm's estimate of how close JFK was to him.As the area in front of the limo is not visible in frame z255, http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z255.jpg we will have to calculate at which frame Mr. Brehm should be visible. If the limo was travelling at 12 mph, this would translate to a speed of 17.6 feet per second. If Zapruder's camera was running at 18.3 frames per second, this would mean that, for each frame viewed, the limo should have advanced .96 feet down Elm St. That being said, at frame z260 Mr. Brehm should be, at the very least, equal with the front bumper of the limo. if we assume the hood of the limo to be five feet long, Mr. Brehm should be quite visible in frame z265, http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z265.jpg .Of course, we do not see him. He is not visible beside the limo's windshield until frame z276, http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z276.jpg a further eleven frames or roughly eleven feet down Elm St. Of course, all of this relies upon no other changes being made. If Coverall Man's position in the Altgens photo corresponds roughly to Hard Hat Man on the opposite side of Elm St., where would this place Mr. Brehm, considering there was quite a long line of spectators between Hard Hat Man and the Stemmons Freeway sign? In the Zapruder film, Mr. Brehm is quite a distance further down Elm St. past this sign. Does the Altgens photo place Mr. Brehm across the street (or further up the street) from the Stemmons Freeway sign?