Alex Jones is Raising Hell in Dealey Plaza

[Bob]

Please see this...http://www.infowars.com/live-video-figh ... -dallas/Go get 'em Alex!

[Tom Bigg]

Mr. Groden is quoted in this piece in The Guardian on Lew Rockwell: http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/11/no_a ... as/"Friday ought to be one of the most important days of his life. It is the 50th anniversary of John F Kennedy’s death, as well as Groden’s 68th birthday. The city is hosting a commemoration in Dealey Plaza for dignitaries and 5,000 members of the public who won their tickets in a ballot. Groden said he will be there as an accredited journalist. But like other conspiracy theorists, he does not feel welcome.“'It’s very late in the day for this damn city to all of a sudden pretend that they care about what happened to the president. For 49 years people like myself have been out here trying to keep the issues alive, respectfully giving a moment of silence for the president and now that it’s the magic 50th, the city decides they want to take it over,'” he said."Dallas civic leaders have arranged an hour-long ceremony called “The 50th” that will “set a solemn, dignified and understated tone as we commemorate the life, legacy and leadership of President John F Kennedy,” mayor Mike Rawlings said in a statement. There will be speeches, hymns, a flypast and a moment of silence at 12.30pm, the time of the shooting."

[Slav]

Alex a true HEROToday the City of dallas remembers JFK for the First time in 50 years, While the rest of us remember him on a yearly basis and year round.50 years ago they Shot and killed JFK today they are guilty of the same, they closed off the streets and only allowed people in who believed in the Lone nut theory which makes them all lone nuts. Anyone who was there 50 years ago was not allowed in because they did not believe in the lone nut theory they were banned from the event.They had more Police there today then they had 50 years ago if they even had 1 per cent of the police they had to day 50 years ago this would not of happened.Today all the media is only playing and reporting or shall I say lieing to the american people with only 1 side of the story and not reporting on anything else that is taken place around dealey plaza.They did the same thing 50 years ago with the warren report now 50 years latter they try to convince people still of the lone nut, one day there will be more than 95 per cent of the people who will believe that is was a coup and know that LBJ was behind the whole event.Imagine people like James T was not allowed in and many others who were there 50 years ago, CNN had a special report with lone nut wacho Posner reporting, it has become so obvious to everyone that the news in controlled media which only does a one way reporting of the information they want people to know the truth is being held back on a daily basis.The Skies were raining with Tears from JFK as he looked down and watched how he was only remembered by the lone nuts and not everyone else who has for many decades.Our group is growing and will one day have the truth told to everyone.God bless JFK and the many great members here who have spent decades seeking the truth.Can you imagine if this never happened what a different world.JFK President 1960-1968RFK President 1968- 1976Ted Kennedy President 1976- 1984JFK JR President No Nixon No LBJ No Bush No wars no CiaNo Deficit No Federal Reserve No Depression No Recession No 911LBJ Jailed Nixon Jailed Hoover JailedGas prices at 1.00 a gallonImagine the list in endless......

[Bob]

Slav wrote:Alex a true HEROToday the City of dallas remembers JFK for the First time in 50 years, While the rest of us remember him on a yearly basis and year round.50 years ago they Shot and killed JFK today they are guilty of the same, they closed off the streets and only allowed people in who believed in the Lone nut theory which makes them all lone nuts. Anyone who was there 50 years ago was not allowed in because they did not believe in the lone nut theory they were banned from the event.They had more Police there today then they had 50 years ago if they even had 1 per cent of the police they had to day 50 years ago this would not of happened.Today all the media is only playing and reporting or shall I say lieing to the american people with only 1 side of the story and not reporting on anything else that is taken place around dealey plaza.They did the same thing 50 years ago with the warren report now 50 years latter they try to convince people still of the lone nut, one day there will be more than 95 per cent of the people who will believe that is was a coup and know that LBJ was behind the whole event.Imagine people like James T was not allowed in and many others who were there 50 years ago, CNN had a special report with lone nut wacho Posner reporting, it has become so obvious to everyone that the news in controlled media which only does a one way reporting of the information they want people to know the truth is being held back on a daily basis.The Skies were raining with Tears from JFK as he looked down and watched how he was only remembered by the lone nuts and not everyone else who has for many decades.Our group is growing and will one day have the truth told to everyone.God bless JFK and the many great members here who have spent decades seeking the truth.Can you imagine if this never happened what a different world.JFK President 1960-1968RFK President 1968- 1976Ted Kennedy President 1976- 1984JFK JR President No Nixon No LBJ No Bush No wars no CiaNo Deficit No Federal Reserve No Depression No Recession No 911LBJ Jailed Nixon Jailed Hoover JailedGas prices at 1.00 a gallonImagine the list in endless......Slav...you just described Utopia in my mind.

[Tom Bigg]

I caught that reference on Alex Jones, it would be good if he shed more light than heat.What would have happened had Kennedy lived? His administration was in deep trouble; with LBJ facing an investigation also the Bobby Baker and the Estes affair, both criminals. Kennedy had scandals that were inevitable due to the cash that was flowing through his aids via corrupt corporate interests such as "General Dynamics". http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index ... topic=6250 Kennedy likely would have stayed the course in Vietnam until the 1964 elections were done for political reasons according to some of Seymore Hersh's research. Politicians are almost all corrupt, especially in Texas.

[Bob]

Tom, I appreciate what you are saying, but as you know JFK was more than happy to see LBJ leave his administration, and (Attorney General) Bobby Kennedy was the biggest cheerleader of that effort. How that would have been handled, is up for speculation. But he certainly would have been off the ticket at some point.In terms of Vietnam, remember, there were only 16,000 advisors/troops in Vietnam as the time of JFK's assassination. JFK had already put out NSAM 263 which ordered some troops out of Nam in 1963, and all out by 1965. JFK was very much trusted by and large by the American public regarding foreign policy, mostly because of the way he handled the Cuban Missile Crisis. That was completely opposite of the way the Military Industrial Complex and the CIA felt about him for the most part. That is part of the reason the events of 11/22/1963 happened.Overall, I'm a fan of the work Seymour Hersh has done, but his book regarding JFK was certainly not his best effort. At least in my opinion.

[Tom Bigg]

Vietnam was an impossible problem as the anti-communist crusaders were so adamant that the US must stop the spread of communism around the world. I doubt that JFK could have seriously ended the Vietnam buildup, as much as he would have liked to shift foreign policy, was at the mercy of political forces beyond his control. Vietnam's Diem died in early November of 1963, despite the efforts of foreign policy experts in JFK's administration to get him out of harm's way. The record is clear that JFK increased US manpower/intelligence in Vietnam:"When briefing Kennedy, Eisenhower emphasized that the communist threat in Southeast Asia required priority; Eisenhower considered Laos to be "the cork in the bottle" in regards to the regional threat. In March 1961, Kennedy voiced a change in policy from supporting a "free" Laos to a "neutral" Laos, indicating privately that Vietnam, and not Laos, should be deemed America's tripwire for communism's spread in the area.[96]In May 1961 he dispatched Lyndon Johnson to meet with South Vietnam's President Ngo Dinh Diem. Johnson assured Diem more aid in molding a fighting force that could resist the communists.[97] Kennedy announced a change of policy from support to partnership with Diem in defeat of communism in South Vietnam.[98]Kennedy initially followed Eisenhower's lead, using limited military action to fight the communist forces led by Ho Chi Minh.[99] He continued policies that provided political, economic, and military support to the South Vietnamese government.[99] Late in 1961, the Viet Cong began assuming a predominant presence, initially seizing the provincial capital of Phuoc Vinh.[100] Kennedy increased the number of helicopters, military advisors, and undeclared U.S. Special Forces in the area, but he was reluctant to order a full-scale deployment of troops.[101][102]In late 1961, President Kennedy sent Roger Hilsman, then director of the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research, to assess the situation in Vietnam. There, Hilsman met Sir Robert Thompson, head of the British Advisory Mission to South Vietnam and the concept of the Strategic Hamlet Program was formed. It was approved by Kennedy and South Vietnam President Ngo Dinh Diem. It was implemented in early 1962 and involved some forced relocation, village internment, and segregation of rural South Vietnamese into new communities where the peasantry would be isolated from Communist insurgents. It was hoped these new communities would provide security for the peasants and strengthen the tie between them and the central government. However, by November 1963 the program waned and officially ended in 1964.[103]In early 1962, Kennedy formally authorized escalated involvement when he signed the "National Security Action Memorandum – Subversive Insurgency (War of Liberation)".[104] Secretary of State Dean Rusk voiced strong support for U.S. involvement.[105] "Operation Ranch Hand", a large-scale aerial defoliation effort, began on the roadsides of South Vietnam.[106]Kennedy with future Australian Prime Minister Harold Holt in the Oval Office in 1963.In April 1963, Kennedy assessed the situation in Vietnam: "We don't have a prayer of staying in Vietnam. Those people hate us. They are going to throw our asses out of there at any point. But I can't give up that territory to the communists and get the American people to re-elect me".[107] Kennedy faced a crisis in Vietnam by July; despite increased U.S. support, the South Vietnamese military was only marginally effective against pro-communist Viet Cong forces.On August 21, just as the new U.S. Ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr. arrived, Diem and his brother Ngo Dinh Nhu ordered South Vietnam forces, funded and trained by the CIA, to quell Buddhist demonstrations. The crackdowns heightened expectations of a coup d'état to remove Diem with (or perhaps by) his brother, Nhu.[108] Lodge was instructed to try to get Diem and Nhu to step down and leave the country. Diem would not listen to Lodge.[109]Cable 243 (DEPTEL 243), dated August 24, followed, declaring Washington would no longer tolerate Nhu's actions, and Lodge was ordered to pressure Diem to remove Nhu. If Diem refused, the Americans would explore alternative leadership.[110] Lodge stated that the only workable option was to get the South Vietnamese generals to overthrow Diem and Nhu, as originally planned.[111]At week's end, Kennedy learned from Lodge that the Diem government might, due to France's assistance to Nhu, be dealing secretly with the communists—and might ask the Americans to leave; orders were sent to Saigon and throughout Washington to "destroy all coup cables".[112] At the same time, the first formal anti-Vietnam war sentiment was expressed by U.S. clergy from the Ministers' Vietnam Committee.[113]A White House meeting in September was indicative of the very different ongoing appraisals; the President was given updated assessments after personal inspections on the ground by the Department of Defense (General Victor Krulak) and the State Department (Joseph Mendenhall). Krulak said that the military fight against the communists was progressing and being won, while Mendenhall stated that the country was civilly being lost to any U.S. influence. Kennedy reacted, saying, "Did you two gentlemen visit the same country?" The president was unaware that the two men were at such odds that they had not spoken to each other on the return flight.[114]In October 1963, the president appointed Defense Secretary McNamara and General Maxwell D. Taylor to a Vietnam mission in another effort to synchronize the information and formulation of policy. The objective of the McNamara Taylor mission "emphasized the importance of getting to the bottom of the differences in reporting from U.S. representatives in Vietnam".[115] In meetings with McNamara, Taylor, and Lodge, Diem again refused to agree to governing measures insisted upon by the U.S., helping to dispel McNamara's previous optimism about Diem.[116]Taylor and McNamara were also enlightened by Vietnam's Vice President, Nguyen Ngoc Tho (choice of many to succeed Diem should a coup occur), who in detailed terms obliterated Taylor's information that the military was succeeding in the countryside.[117] At Kennedy's insistence, the mission report contained a recommended schedule for troop withdrawals: 1,000 by year's end and complete withdrawal in 1965, something the NSC considered a strategic fantasy.[118] The final report declared that the military was making progress, that the increasingly unpopular Diem-led government was not vulnerable to a coup, and that an assassination of Diem or Nhu was a possibility.[119]In late October, intelligence wires again reported that a coup against the Diem government was afoot. The source, Vietnamese General Duong Van Minh (also known as "Big Minh"), wanted to know the U.S. position. Kennedy instructed Lodge to offer covert assistance to the coup, excluding assassination, and to ensure deniability by the U.S.[120] Later that month, as the coup became imminent, Kennedy ordered all cables to be routed through him. A policy of "control and cut out" was initiated to insure presidential control of U.S. responses, while cutting him out of the paper trail.[121]On November 1, 1963, South Vietnamese generals, led by "Big Minh", overthrew the Diem government, arresting and then killing Diem and Nhu. Kennedy was shocked by the deaths. He found out afterwards that Minh had asked the CIA field office to secure safe-passage out of the country for Diem and Nhu, but was told that 24 hours were needed to procure a plane. Minh responded that he could not hold them that long.[122]News of the coup initially led to renewed confidence—both in America and in South Vietnam—that the war might be won.[123] McGeorge Bundy drafted a National Security Action Memo to present to Kennedy upon his return from Dallas. It reiterated the resolve to fight communism in Vietnam, with increasing military and economic aid and expansion of operations into Laos and Cambodia. Before leaving for Dallas, Kennedy told Michael Forrestal that "after the first of the year ... [he wanted] an in depth study of every possible option, including how to get out of there ... to review this whole thing from the bottom to the top". When asked what he thought the president meant, Forrestal said, "it was devil's advocate stuff."[124]Historians disagree on whether Vietnam would have escalated had Kennedy survived and been re-elected in 1964.[125] Fueling the debate are statements made by Secretary of Defense McNamara in the film "The Fog of War" that Kennedy was strongly considering pulling out of Vietnam after the 1964 election.[126] The film also contains a tape recording of Lyndon Johnson stating that Kennedy was planning to withdraw, a position that Johnson disagreed with.[127] Kennedy had signed National Security Action Memorandum (NSAM) 263, dated October 11, which ordered the withdrawal of 1,000 military personnel by the end of the year.[128][129] Such an action would have been a policy reversal, but Kennedy was moving in a less hawkish direction since his acclaimed speech about world peace at American University on June 10, 1963.[130]When Robert Kennedy was asked in 1964 what his brother would have done if the South Vietnamese had been on the brink of defeat, he replied, "We'd face that when we came to it."[131] At the time of Kennedy's death, no final policy decision had been made as to Vietnam.[132] U.S. involvement in the region escalated until Lyndon Johnson, his successor, directly deployed regular U.S. military forces for fighting the Vietnam War.[133][134] After Kennedy's assassination, President Johnson passed NSAM 273 on November 26, 1963. It reversed Kennedy's decision to withdraw 1,000 troops, and reaffirmed the policy of assistance to the South Vietnamese.[135][136]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy"Two hundred thousand gallons of defoliant were shipped, in violation of the Geneva Accords. By the end of 1962, American military personnel had increased from 2,600 to 11,500; 109 men were killed compared to 14 the previous year. During 1962, Viet Cong troops increased from 15,000 to 24,000. Depending on which assessment Kennedy accepted (Department of Defense or State) there had been zero or modest progress in countering the increase in communist aggression in return for an expanded U.S. involvement. Reeves 1993, p. 283."

[Bob]

Tom, I understand your point about Vietnam. But you still have NSAM 263 (troop withdrawl) which JFK signed in October of 1963. Also, see this...http://worldhistoryproject.org/1963/10/ ... f-1963Both Robert McNamara and LBJ thought JFK was getting out of Nam, based on their comments in "The Fog of War". LBJ basically reversed JFK's plan in Nam by putting out NSAM 273 the day after JFK's funeral. Talk about being cold and calculated.