There was no SS agents on foot in Dealey Plaza?

[Frenchy]

Only four of the Secret Service Agents in the motorcade appear to have taken decisive action during the time the shots were being fired. Clint Hill, of course, ran from the Presidential follow up car and crawled across the trunk of the President's limousine to try and protect Kennedy with his own body. SA John Ready left the follow up car, but was recalled before being able to offer any help. ASIC Youngblood seems to have reacted even more quickly. Almost immediately after the first shot, he was over his seat, pushing the Vice President to the floor of the vehicle, also using his own body as a shield against any attack that may have been directed at Johnson. (22) The final agent who seems to have been more alert to danger than his some of his companions was "Lem" Johns. By the time the third shot was fired, Johns was out of the follow-up car, and running towards the Vice President's vehicle. He later told the Warren Commission:" . . . before I reached the Vice President's Car a third shot had sounded and the entire motorcade then picked up speed and I was left on the street at this point. I obtained a ride with White House movie men and joined the Vice President and ASAIC Youngblood at the Parkland Hospital." (23)Johns was possibly the last individual to climb aboard Camera Car 124, which did not go straight to Parkland. The Camera Car was now a good few minutes behind the President, and no one in it was aware that Kennedy had been hit. The Cameramen went to the next venue on the Presidential itinerary which happened to be the Trade Mart. It was there that Johns learned that both Kennedy and Johnson were at Parkland. He convinced a Police three wheeler motorcycle cop to take him directly to the hospital, advising the film crew to follow-up close behind. (25) Once at Parkland, Johns rejoined his colleagues and set about organizing the Vice President's departure from Love Field Airport. (26)So there was one on the ground ?

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

Well, there was technically ONE Secret Service guy on the ground for a brief moment, I suppose. The Secret Service said that they had NOBODY on the ground that day. That means that anybody who encountered a Secret Service guy, like up on the knoll, were FAKES!

[Frenchy]

There seems to be evidence that this agent went behind the fence with dave wiegman....could be the SS agent people ran into

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

Frenchy wrote:There seems to be evidence that this agent went behind the fence with dave wiegman....could be the SS agent people ran intoWhat evidence? Seriously...If that's the case, then his movements were unknown to the actual Secret Service. Remember that Chauncey Holt claims to have made fake Secret Service credentials that he brought to Dallas that day.

[Frenchy]

Thats if you believe Chauncey Holt

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

Frenchy wrote:Thats if you believe Chauncey HoltI see your point. It's a good one certainly. Hmmmmm...Well, either way, it wouldn't be a far stretch of the imagination that at least one of the Secret Service men was on the ground. I mean, really, just look at how poorly that driver reacted (or DIDN'T react) and then look at how the Secret Service basically violated Texas state law by forcibly removing the body from Parkland Hospital.Good point, Frenchy.

[Frenchy]

Pasquale i found thisIt would appear that both Johns and Wiegman left their respective vehicles at about the same time (between the second and third shots). Johns, by his own admission, tried to reach the Vice President's Car and failed. Meanwhile, Wiegman continued his run along Houston, and Smith was told of "shots from the bushes" by a near hysterical woman. The Policeman set off at a slightly slower rate than the other two, checking the trees and shrubs as he moved along the Elm Street extension. Johns had lost the motorcade. He did not jump straight into Camera Car 1 for a lift -- it was not yet there! As Wiegman was still running, and subsequently met Johns at the top of the knoll, the Agent must have run to where he believed the shots had originated -- towards the picket fence. A few seconds later Wiegman, having turned the corner and seen Hargis start toward the Pergola, headed up the grass bank, still filming. As Johns is not visible in the Wiegman footage, one must ask the question: where is he? Seconds later Wiegman attests to seeing him there, implying, in his statement, that Johns was already somewhere close by "looking around" when Wiegman arrived. The obvious and logical assumption is that Johns, having reached the Pergola seconds before Wiegman and found nothing, simply ran round the side of the concrete structure and directly into the parking lot. Hence he cannot be found in the Wiegman film. Is there any support for this theory? Two other Cameramen, Atkins and Craven, left the car on Elm and proceeded to shoot film of the Newman family lying on the ground on the North side of the street. (27) These movie makers along with Altgens and Frank Cancellare can be seen in Photographs taken from within the passing Press Bus. (28) Although most of the knoll and Pergola is visible, Wiegman is not. Where is he? We know he had not returned to the car, parked along the South side of Elm, because he reappears in later photographs, together with his aforementioned colleagues and the Newmans (29), after which they all make a run for the Camera Car. Where, we may ask, is Johns during this time? He is not visible in any of the aftermath pictures, although many of them show much of the knoll and the street. (30) He is not already in the car, Craven indicates that he was either the last or next-to-last to jump into the car as it was pulling away. (31) Was there a point when, momentarily, both Wiegman and Johns were behind the picket fence?

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

Frenchy wrote:Pasquale i found thisIt would appear that both Johns and Wiegman left their respective vehicles at about the same time (between the second and third shots). Johns, by his own admission, tried to reach the Vice President's Car and failed. Meanwhile, Wiegman continued his run along Houston, and Smith was told of "shots from the bushes" by a near hysterical woman. The Policeman set off at a slightly slower rate than the other two, checking the trees and shrubs as he moved along the Elm Street extension. Johns had lost the motorcade. He did not jump straight into Camera Car 1 for a lift -- it was not yet there! As Wiegman was still running, and subsequently met Johns at the top of the knoll, the Agent must have run to where he believed the shots had originated -- towards the picket fence. A few seconds later Wiegman, having turned the corner and seen Hargis start toward the Pergola, headed up the grass bank, still filming. As Johns is not visible in the Wiegman footage, one must ask the question: where is he? Seconds later Wiegman attests to seeing him there, implying, in his statement, that Johns was already somewhere close by "looking around" when Wiegman arrived. The obvious and logical assumption is that Johns, having reached the Pergola seconds before Wiegman and found nothing, simply ran round the side of the concrete structure and directly into the parking lot. Hence he cannot be found in the Wiegman film. Is there any support for this theory? Two other Cameramen, Atkins and Craven, left the car on Elm and proceeded to shoot film of the Newman family lying on the ground on the North side of the street. (27) These movie makers along with Altgens and Frank Cancellare can be seen in Photographs taken from within the passing Press Bus. (28) Although most of the knoll and Pergola is visible, Wiegman is not. Where is he? We know he had not returned to the car, parked along the South side of Elm, because he reappears in later photographs, together with his aforementioned colleagues and the Newmans (29), after which they all make a run for the Camera Car. Where, we may ask, is Johns during this time? He is not visible in any of the aftermath pictures, although many of them show much of the knoll and the street. (30) He is not already in the car, Craven indicates that he was either the last or next-to-last to jump into the car as it was pulling away. (31) Was there a point when, momentarily, both Wiegman and Johns were behind the picket fence?All good points. By the way, in my last post when I used the phrase "...it would be a far stretch of the imagination..." I mean to say "it WOULDN'T be a far stretch of the imagination..." I already corrected it, but you get my point.I'm looking at the information you're presenting and actually incorporating it with the Chauncey Holt information...meaning that I can't refute your points. I don't have facts to do that, but there still could have been bogus Secret Service men on the ground too. What I mean is that the Secret Service said themselves that they didn't have anybody on the ground in Dealy Plaza. That means that if there WERE actual Secret Service men on the ground, how come the Secret Service as an organization didn't know about it? That seems to go along with my other theory that the ENTIRE CIA or ENTIRE media weren't necessarily accessories. A LOT of them were, but others were duped. Like a lot of the media, in my opinion, were duped into covering-up the facts because they were told that to let the facts out would start World War III. Like with the CIA. There was an abort team, acording to Tosh Plumbly and Files, but where were they sent to start looking? On the WRONG side of the Plaza because had Tosh Plumbly and the other guy been dropped off on the north side of the Plaza, they probably would have seen the activity behind the fence and in the buildings and windows. Anyway, good points, Frenchy!

[Frenchy]

Pasquale, the SS didnt have people on the ground, i accept that but id this SS agent got left on the ground as he said, the SS as an organization would not know. If this agent went behind the fence and did show is ID to patrolman Smith, why didnt he tell the WC or the HSCA, he must have known about the bogus SS claims, why ?

[ChristophMessner]

Cancellare was also on grassy knoll ... Policemen Weitzman and Smith report of "secret service man" they met on the parking lot and in TSBD ... The SS-chief Sorrels never found out, who they were ...